Richmond’s Food Safety Net

Eddie Oliver:

So the government shutdown in the fall was definitely a crisis for us. In fact, the federal government was saying that if this shutdown extends into November, we’re not gonna be able to pay out any SNAP benefits. And so people understandably started to panic about that.

Rich Meagher:

This is Eddie Oliver. He’s the Executive Director of the Federation of Virginia Food Banks, and he’s telling me about last year when it looked like SNAP, the federal government’s Food Assistance Program, was going to just stop.

Eddie Oliver:

We saw some of the longest pantry lines we’ve ever had the week prior to that. Luckily, Governor Youngkin stepped in, made a commitment to use state dollars. Very few people in Virginia ultimately had to go without benefits at that time period. But it shows you how fragile not only the household economics are for so many people, but just the nutrition assistance program and the safety net in general are at this time.

Rich Meagher:

It’s not just this crisis last year. Eddie tells me things are getting worse. Prices are going up. You see it at the grocery store. It’s harder for lots of people to make ends meet and put food on the table. The whole system just feels so precarious and the most vulnerable among us are feeling it most of all. SNAP benefits have already been cut back by the federal government. What happens if these benefits get cut even further? What if they go away?

Eddie Oliver:

The point isn’t that people have to rely on pantries month after month. It should be last resort. But at the end of the day, we have to have a safety net that is gonna take care of people.

Rich Meagher:

I’m Rich Maher. This is RVA’s Got Issues from VPM. Today on our show, what does that safety net for hunger look like? What could it look like? And how do we get there? If we’re thinking of what the safety net could look like, it might look something like MADRVA. Now the MAD doesn’t mean angry, although maybe they are. Uh, but stands for mutual aid distribution. They wanna help feed the hungry, but they want us to think about solidarity and community too. Joining me now is Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez and Irina Rogova from MadRVA. Yaya, Arena, welcome.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Thank you for having us.

Irina Rogova:

Thank you.

Rich Meagher:

Let’s start here. What is MADRVA?

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

MADRVA is a mutual aid collective, um, that is based here in Richmond, Virginia. It started as a project during the 2018 cold snap here in Richmond. A lot of the emergency shelters, instead of being open, actually closed. And so a few folks got together, raised some money to get socks and hot hands, sleeping bags, um, to help folks who are unhoused survive the cold snap. And there was a little bit of energy, a little bit of money left over after that initiative. And a couple of ideas kicked around to make the project a little bit more sustainable. Those things fizzled out until March of 2020, the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, when a very similar <laugh> group of folks got back together because folks were not able to leave their houses and there was a lot of uncertainty, right? And we knew that people would need groceries.

And so similar group of folks, plus a few more, got together, raised the money and started taking, um, grocery delivery requests. This particular iteration of the project started in someone’s garage. That was kind of the onset of what is now Meadowbridge Community Market, which is the free grocery store that we have in the Northside community. And then we also have our mini grant program, which is a direct financial assistance program that provides $200 grants.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. I’ll, I’ll stop you there because I do wanna ask about both of those programs-

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yeah.

Rich Meagher:

… but I wanna unpack a couple of the things that you said that I don’t know that our listeners would be familiar with, right? So you called MADRVA a mutual aid collective, right? And I think those words together are important for the work you do. So let me direct this to Irina. What is mutual aid?

Irina Rogova:

So mutual aid is a concept in which there’s an understanding that within a community, we have the resources that we need to help one another. Um, you have a little bit of this, your neighbor’s lacking, you can give your neighbor that, and we don’t have to depend on these systems that we’re, like, entrenched into for support and we don’t have to play these kind of capitalist games-

Rich Meagher:

Hmm.

Irina Rogova:

… to help our neighbors, and that mutual aid can strengthen our communities. So a lot of things are mutual aid, even if you don’t use that term. So there’s a history of mutual aid in things like early labor organizing. There were mutual aid funds to help striking workers feed their families. A lot of what the Black Panther Party did was mutual aid for their communities. When you see someone crowdsourcing for their cancer treatment, that is mutual aid, and we’re filling in gaps that are left by these systems that are meant to support us, that we pay into, but don’t actually support us.

Rich Meagher:

And so when you say mutual aid collective, right, that, that word to collective is important also because no- nobody’s in charge? Is that how it works?

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yeah. So when we say collective, we mean that we are an organization that operates trying to build very intentional relationships with each other, right? And so we’re really trying to work to build trust and solidity within and amongst ourselves. We do operate on a non-hierarchical structure, meaning that, um, we don’t technically have an executive director. All decisions are made using a consensus-based decision-making process that sometimes means that decisions are made very slowly, right, in an attempt to get as many opinions as possible. And it has meant that we can shift things within how we operate, um, if there is enough buy-in.

Irina Rogova:

And there’s, like, a give and take, right? So there’s upsides to the structure, and there’s some hard things, so-

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Absolutely.

Irina Rogova:

… an upside is if someone moves out of town, if someone gets sick, we don’t collapse as an organization.

Rich Meagher:

Right.

Irina Rogova:

And some of the downsides are like, we have had an hour long meeting about eggs.

Rich Meagher:

<laugh>

Irina Rogova:

When egg prices went up, we really had to negotiate how much we were gonna spend on eggs.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah, and you don’t have that, um, hierarchy to tell you, “Well, this is the one who calls the shots.” You, you have to sort it out, right?

Irina Rogova:

Yeah.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yeah.

Irina Rogova:

We have to get to consensus, which can be a very long process, um, and can cause tension-

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

mm-hmm.

Irina Rogova:

… can cause fights, and we have to, like, keep coming back together, understanding that, like, we have the same values. We have core values in our organization that everyone understands when they enter it, and everything that we do reflects off of those values.

Rich Meagher:

So let’s talk about how you, you learn and teach those values, particularly in the specific things that you do. So you mentioned the Meadowbridge Community Markets in Northside-

Irina Rogova:

mm-hmm.

Rich Meagher:

… near Highland Park. You call it a free grocery and supply store.

Irina Rogova:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Meagher:

Basically, people come and, and take what they need, they leave things if they can. And it sounds like this is a big culture change, not just for you folks to trying to, to get it out there, but, but even people who come to the place, right? Do you have to explain how it works to people who come to the store?

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

All the time.

Irina Rogova:

Absolutely. <laugh>

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Constantly.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Um, I think that the idea for opening Meadowbridge Community Market came from having seen this modeled in a couple of other places. There is a grocery store similar to this in Atlanta called The Grocery Spot. There was one operating at a smaller scale, actually in Charlottesville, Virginia, for a couple of years, and the desire was to have a space where folks could come and pick out the groceries that they wanted and needed for their families, while also being a place where for us as a collective to spread the good word about mutual aid, right? Um, and talk to people about what this means within the context of, like, the world that we’re living in right now, right? Um, or worlds that right now is, like, steeped in a lot of competition, a lot of fear of other people, a lot of scarcity, right? Our goal always with Meadowbridge Community Market is to allow space and breathing room for people to be able to know that they don’t have to worry about their groceries for that week and hopefully free up some mental energy and fill a very basic need, right, that, like, has been put behind a paywall.

But this idea is foreign to a lot of people, right? Like, what do you mean it’s free?

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

What do you mean, you know, I can come and, like, just get whatever I want? And then also, you know, within that, how are we having conversations with people about you, maybe you don’t need all 10 of the dishwashing liquids, right? Because again, navigating scarcity, if you don’t know if you’re gonna have something, like, the urge-

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

… unfortunately is to just, like, ensure that you get it by whatever means necessary, right? And so for us, it is a lot of how are we balancing hundreds of people with unmet needs with a very real material budget and a very real desire to get people to trust each other enough to be able to come to the store and know that we’ll be here again next week, and you’ll be see your neighbor again next week, and, like, you can each get the things that you need.

Rich Meagher:

So, I mean, how do you do that? You’re talking about, uh, like a big culture change and you’re saying, “Well, we have to explain…” Like, are you literally, like, walking around the store explaining this to people as they’re there?

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yeah. So we’ve actually built out, um, specific roles within the store for people to do just that, to kind of explain how we operate in the store. Um, we have a lot of also signage up in Meadowbridge Community Market, um, things that just say, like, “Take what you need, leave what you can. “

Irina Rogova:

We have a lot of literature.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yes.

Irina Rogova:

We make zines and zines and zines.

Rich Meagher:

<laugh>

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Mm-hmm. We’ve created a lot of, like, literature that we pass out to people. So it’s been extremely challenging. I think that we consider ourselves to be a very, like, values oriented and, like, politically minded organization, but people who come to the store are not necessarily at that level, right?

Rich Meagher:

Yeah, yeah.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

And so we’re trying to plant seeds.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. So how do you resolve, like, conflict? I mean, it sounds a little exhausting, right? And, uh, not, it’s not just the tension you’re describing with customers, with vi- visitors, community members-

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

mm-hmm.

Rich Meagher:

… but also within your collective, right?

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Meagher:

Because like you’re saying, you gotta build consensus.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Meagher:

Um, it seems like a lot of work.

Irina Rogova:

It is.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

It is <laugh> .

Irina Rogova:

<laugh> But this is entirely volunteer based. We do this on top of some of us have one job, some of sub two, three.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Mm-hmm.

Irina Rogova:

We have folks, you know, are retired, who are on disability, things like that, that are also part of our collective and have other caregiving responsibilities, age range from, like, college students to elders, which also brings in a lot of cultural differences.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yes.

Irina Rogova:

Um, because also our collective is open to everyone.

Rich Meagher:

Sure.

Irina Rogova:

So now we’ve gotten more folks in the collective that started out as shoppers-

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Mm-hmm.

Irina Rogova:

… um, which has been great because having the perspective of folks in the neighborhood is really, really important. We’re not there to just impose-

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Irina Rogova:

… our ideas and our values on the people in the neighborhood. That does mean that we have to go through a lot of conflict resolution-

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yes.

Irina Rogova:

… work. Um, sometimes it’s one-on-one. Sometimes it’s like, “Hey, I don’t like the way we talked to each other in that meeting. Can we meet outside? Can we get someone to mediate?”

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Mm-hmm.

Irina Rogova:

Um, but we always come back to, like, these are our values and if these values are not gonna work for you, then maybe this is not the collective for you.

Rich Meagher:

Mm.

Irina Rogova:

And it’s okay to leave.

Rich Meagher:

So you’re, you’re working on this culture change in the market here.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Meagher:

You, you also do these mini-grants, right?

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Meagher:

That’s the other big program. Community members basically fill out a form. They ask for up to $200 for any reason.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Meagher:

What, what do people use this money for?

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Oh, wow. Um, so we’ve been doing this program almost as long as the supply drive. Um, so it started in April of 2020, and people have brought eviction notices to us and said, “This is going to be the reason that I’m able to stay in my housing this month.” There was-

Irina Rogova:

Prescriptions.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Prescriptions. There was a mother who was like, “I just gave birth a week ago. This is going to help me buy things for my baby.” We’ve seen-

Irina Rogova:

Get your car fixed-

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yeah.

Irina Rogova:

… so you go to work. We’ve seen, we s- like, there are funeral costs.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yes.

Irina Rogova:

Medical bills.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yes.

Rich Meagher:

And so how do you know that people use the money for the purposes that they ask?

Irina Rogova:

We don’t.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

We don’t. So that’s a really big component of our, like, value system is essentially trusting people to know what they need, um, and trusting that when someone applies that they are doing it in good faith. I have no desire, um, or capacity to go to individuals and be like, “Give me a receipt.”

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Um, nor do I have the desire to coordinate directly with a corporation or a landlord, right? We are very intentional with the mini grant program to make it low barrier. I think that in a world where money is the means through which you get your needs met, like if there’s an opportunity for me to be able to steward funds and distribute funds to people, um, it is a myth that people, uh, <laugh> you know, are given money and they go and do bad things with it, I think.

Rich Meagher:

I mean, I hear what you’re saying too and, and there’s this whole world of microfinance, right? Grameen Bank, the Nobel Prize winning Muhammad Yunus internationally, um, where, you know, demonstrated clearly that low income people pay back loans the same rate as wealthy people, right? There’s nothing different about low income folks, but, but that still operates like a bank, right? That’s still, like, we are gonna ask you to fill out forms and give us ID and proof and things like that. So, you know, I, I look at the whole MADRVA model, right? You’ve got no boss, there’s free food, there’s free money, right? It sounds pretty wild, but it’s also, it’s, it’s a very sharp contrast with how we traditionally do aid to people who are vulnerable, right? Like benefits like SNAP. It, it, it seems like that’s definitely intentional. Do you feel like the way we’re doing things now outside of your model, do you feel like that’s not working in some sense?

Irina Rogova:

Absolutely. It’s not.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

100% not working. <laugh>

Irina Rogova:

And I, I can speak to this very directly. My family immigrated to this country when I was a toddler. We thankfully had a lot of help from not government programs, from, like, cultural identity-based programs, but we were also on, back then, they were called food stamps. I, I’ve spent a, a large part of my childhood on Medicaid. My mom got sick before retirement age and has been on Medicaid, on Medicare, on SNAP, on Section eight, and I have been the person to help her fill those forms out for pretty much 20 years at this point.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Irina Rogova:

Everything else aside. Like, my mother is 81 years old. She has a disability. She has not been able to work for nearly 20 years, and still every year we have to say, here’s everything in her bank account, here’s her social security income, here’s proof that this person who has, like, lived at the same level of means for 20 years, has to fill out this stuff, and it takes forever. The forms are complicated. You can’t get anyone on the phone. You have to have an internet connection. She has me, but a lot of people don’t have that, and it’s just barrier after barrier after barrier. It’s a full-time job to try to get these benefits. It’s infuriating to know that this is happening to so many people, and we can do this in a better way.

Rich Meagher:

Well, that’s, that’s what I’m wondering. Like, do you think that this mutual aid model that you folks are, are showing us, um, at the market with these mini grants, can it replace something like, like a SNAP benefits and, and like the, the welfare state?

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Why I keep coming back to this is because I think that mutual aid as a framework is going to be the most important framework that we have to carry us into the years to come. The question of, like, can it replace a welfare state is one that feels tricky.

Rich Meagher:

Mm-hmm.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Um, because I don’t want it to replace a welfare state. I want to live in a world where people do not have to fight to survive. I want to live in a world where there is a free store on every corner. Um, I wanna live in a world where survival, housing, healthcare is not behind a paywall, right? I think that mutual aid is a way for us to conceptualize what it looks like to, to act in that way. Like, I have eternal gratitude for Richmond. This city shows up for MADRVA in massive ways. People do raffles for us, benefit shows, donate monthly to keep us running. So I don’t want it to, I don’t want it to replace the welfare state. I want us to think a, think a little bit bigger about what happens <laugh> if we don’t even need a welfare state, right? And I know that that is like some … For some people, um, that’s really farfetched.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

You’re like, how are we gonna possibly, you know, we’re gonna need, you know, something. But, like, that’s a big part of, like, why we focus so much on political education, why we think it’s so important to be having conversations is because it’s only farfetched because the, the world that we live in limits your imagination. Our invitation is, like, imagine what it could be like if you didn’t have to fight so hard to get your basic needs met.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. And so I, I mean, I hear what you’re saying and it’s a, it’s like the, the idea of political imagination, right? Busting out of the, the conceptual constraints is something that’s, that’s big in, in political science and political theory. But there is also this idea that there are limits to how much you can push people or, or, or, or … Like, so I can just imagine grandpa, whoever grandpa is-

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

mm-hmm.

Rich Meagher:

… like, you know, these kids today, like, dream of a world where we don’t have rules and everybody’s free. And what do you say to people who are like, “Oh, you’re just naive. Like, people aren’t gonna do this. People aren’t like this. This is a nice little dream world that you have, but, but it can’t, it can’t happen.”

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Um, I think that I would say it’s happening all around us. I think that I would say it has been happening actually, and there has been very, very purported efforts to suppress the history of its effectiveness. I think that <laugh> growing up in a world where, like, the thing that, like, you were taught is, like, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Um, you know, I suffered, you also have to suffer. I think that that is a knee-jerk response to years of programming. And I think that, you know, I didn’t come out of the womb with the level of understanding, um, or, like, the values that I have right now, right? I had to try, I had to read-

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

… I had to fail. I am still, you know, in a process, very much in a process of transformation. And so I like to think that barring polarizing or extremist opinions that people have, I think that grandpa could, like, have a conversation or a couple of conversations where there’s a little bit of pulling at the threads.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Irina Rogova:

The first thing I say to someone is, “Is this current system working for you? “

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

mm-hmm.

Irina Rogova:

“Grandpa, maybe you are lucky enough to have a pension. None of your grandkids do. We can’t afford homes. <laugh> We can’t afford rent. We can’t afford groceries, and it’s getting worse every year.”

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Mm-hmm.

Irina Rogova:

So why can’t we dream a little bit? And I actually think that the political landscape is … I can’t even think of a smart word.

Rich Meagher:

<laugh>

Irina Rogova:

Um, just Ugh.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yeah.

Irina Rogova:

It’s getting buried that actually a lot of this is very popular.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Mm-hmm.

Irina Rogova:

People want their neighbors to have food. People want universal daycare. People are interested in something like a universal basic income. And I think one thing that really stood out to me is I’m from New York, I followed the mayoral election very closely, and people were like, “None of the things Mamdani is promising are gonna happen.” And within eight days, they had universal free daycare.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Irina Rogova:

Eight days. Because of the, it’s popular. No one wants to spend all their time, like, worrying about how they’re gonna feed their families.

Rich Meagher:

Why not dream is what you’re saying, yeah.

Irina Rogova:

Why not dream?

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Why not dream? Why not do?

Irina Rogova:

Yeah.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

You know, why not try something else, you know? Like, try to have a conversation with your coworkers or your neighbors, you know? Um, if you see someone or know someone who’s struggling, you know, try to make them a meal and drop it off. It’s these really, like, small moments of attempting to act differently that really, really compound. So it’s, like, the imagination piece of it, and then it’s also the, like, action piece.

Rich Meagher:

Yaya Ogaldez and Irina Rogova are part of MADRVA. Irina, Yaya, thank you.

Irina Rogova:

Thank you.

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Thank you.

Rich Meagher:

To find out more about the Meadowbridge Market, mutual aid and more, go to madrva.org. Next up, food is medicine. That’s when we come back on RVA’s Got Issues.

This is RVA’s Got Issues. One thing we’ve learned is that even with benefit programs like SNAP and alternatives like mutual aid, there’s still more that we can do, maybe need to do to combat food insecurity. There’s a growing movement in healthcare. It’s called Food is Medicine, and hopes to not only help food insecurity, but also get everyone to recognize that nutrition is important in treating chronic disease. We’ve got someone here from the front lines of that movement. Kimberly Battle is a clinical associate professor of nursing at VCU, where she researches health equity and food insecurity. Kimberly, welcome.

Kimberly Battle:

Hello. Thank you very much, Rich, for inviting me. I’m happy to be here.

Rich Meagher:

Of course. So Kimberly, how did you first hear about food is medicine? You know, is this, is this really like a new approach or is this just something that named something you already knew how to do?

Kimberly Battle:

This is not a new approach per se.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Kimberly Battle:

We’ve always heard of healthy eating and nutritious eating and balanced diets.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Kimberly Battle:

Um, but food is medicine is actually the scientific approach, the science behind all of the healthy eating and nutritious eating from the perspective of how do we treat chronic health conditions and how do we also prevent chronic health conditions from the perspective of individuals being able to self-manage. Not saying to throw medication to the wind or, or out the window, but this is basically what we can do every day to manage our diet.

Rich Meagher:

So we’ve got food is medicine. It’s, it’s taking stuff that we did know, but trying to make it a little more scientific, more applied, right?

Ayanna “Yaya” Ogaldez:

Yes. Yes.

Rich Meagher:

Um, so why now? Like, why is it now that this seems to be taking off? I mean, I, I, you know, we did some research and you can find people talking about food as medicine decades ago, but it really does seem like there’s a, a bigger movement now for it.

Kimberly Battle:

What’s happening now to bring it forward is simply the, um, momentum has changed that people want to know what they can do for themselves. Um, it’s very empowering to know what you can do for yourself to help yourself, to manage or even prevent chronic health conditions. And we know that the evidence has existed that supports that. So now we’re just taking that evidence further. We’re building the evidence to take it further.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. So this is not woo stuff, right? No. It’s not like we’re gonna get rid of the drugs and all we’re gonna do is, is meditate and, and eat a carrot every day and then we’re gonna all be healthy 100%. You’re saying that there’s specific kinds of foods that people with chronic conditions, like if you have hypertension, we have the science that shows this kind of healthy diet is gonna help you manage that condition and be healthier. Is that what we mean?

Kimberly Battle:

That is what we mean. Particularly when we look at it, um, from the perspective of food insecurity-

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Kimberly Battle:

… Of food insecurities involves accessibility, availability, affordability. And then you have to look at the sustainability, how people can sustain, um, eating healthy. So in communities or people who are impacted economically, we have to look at how do we provide fresh fruits and vegetables to this population so that the access is there, the, the equity is there to, um, assist with-

Rich Meagher:

Right.

Kimberly Battle:

… um, chronic health condition management, as well as prevention.

Rich Meagher:

So let’s say I’m a person in the community, right, and I have, like, maybe say a condition like hypertension or I’m pre-diabetic and I find my way into this program. What is that like for me? Like, I, I show up and you throw food at me and, and send me home.

Kimberly Battle:

<laugh>

Rich Meagher:

Like what, how does it actually work? That’s what I wanna know.

Kimberly Battle:

People enroll with us.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Kimberly Battle:

When you come in, we explain to you what we, what our program is, the VCU School of Nursing, Mobile Health and Wellness Program. How we, um, partner with faculty — the faculty and staff from the VCU School of Nursing. And that’s a really important part of this program too, is to train the next generation in food is medicine programs.

Rich Meagher:

The next generation of, of health practitioners. Right? Of doctors and nurses.

Kimberly Battle:

Of healthcare, of healthcare professionals. Absolutely. We ask that you commit to coming to, um, either every week for six weeks in a row or every other week to pick up your bag for a total of 12 weeks where you can stretch the program over. We provide, um, the, the provision of the produce bags with instructions, um, and kitchen utensils and supplies and demonstrations. Um, and we ask that you commit to trying to prepare the recipes and that you engage with our teams, our interprofessional education teams to discuss the contents of the bag, ask any questions, and we provide answers and more knowledge regarding, like, what, how, how, this is a garlic clove and how do you access the clove and the garlic and for the recipe, um, this is the serving of olive oil for preparation of a recipe. Sometimes we’ve had, um, not a mystery, um, ingredient, but I can’t remember the name of it, but it was a flour that was actually a tea. You could use it and make tea.

Rich Meagher:

Oh, really?

Kimberly Battle:

And it, it was wonderful because it sent everyone to, to, to, to the computer to look at it- Yeah. … and how, uh, to, to, um, inquire regarding it. And, and, and this is like the, just the introduction of something different.

Rich Meagher:

Do you ever try the produce bags? Like, do you test these out, uh, these recipes?

Kimberly Battle:

So yes. <laugh> I will say that, yes, I do. I tested out a bag that we received from Underground Kitchen. It was one of their demonstrations that we attended, and it was a stew-

Rich Meagher:

mm-hmm.

Kimberly Battle:

… that had cod fish in it. Beautiful, wonderful demonstration. And I went home and I, I had to actually talk myself and get my confidence up to do it. <laugh>

Rich Meagher:

<laugh>

Kimberly Battle:

And once I did it and f- it was very easy to follow, very straightforward, but it was absolutely delicious.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Kimberly Battle:

And I realized what I had done in the past that made me say I would never make a stew like this again, I, I was using too much flour.

Rich Meagher:

Okay.

Kimberly Battle:

And then I also realized I was overcooking the cod, that if you put it in there, set it in at the very end, cover the sauce pan-

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Kimberly Battle:

… It would cook itself, literally. And I was like, “Oh my goodness, this was wonderful.” So what usually happens is that you have a lot of the students or, um, faculty will come in and will give pointers. Some of our participants are very skilled in the area culinary. Um, and some are growing. And, and, and we just celebrate everyone’s changes and progress that they’ve made.

Rich Meagher:

So this seems like it would be really helpful to them, but also, I mean, this seems like a, a bit of a challenge, right? ‘Cause these are people who are, you know, they, they may face some, some challenges, but anybody who’s trying to make a big lifestyle change, right, that’s difficult to do. So are you also like kind of counseling through this change that they’re trying to do?

Kimberly Battle:

We are, we are providing that coaching, that health coaching-

Rich Meagher:

Hmm.

Kimberly Battle:

… during this change. And I wanna emphasize that over the course of six weeks or 12 weeks, depending upon the participation time period, w- we go for small wins. We, we aim for small wins. It, it does not have to be, um, that they, they lost 10 pounds in six weeks.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Kimberly Battle:

It could be that they dropped three or four pounds, but they are remembering.

Rich Meagher:

So I mean, I guess the, the question for me is, are you demonstrating that this is a better investment than, say, more drugs or a better investment than-

Kimberly Battle:

I don’t-

Rich Meagher:

… Some other kind of intervention?

Kimberly Battle:

Right. We’re, we’re not trying to say that this is better than drugs, because you have to compare apples to apples.

Rich Meagher:

Mm.

Kimberly Battle:

And that would be moving into the realm of comparing apples to oranges. But what we do know regarding treatment and management and even prevention of chronic health conditions is that there’s a place for food as medicine and that this science is growing and it’s going to continue to grow.

Rich Meagher:

And so what’s next for this program?

Kimberly Battle:

Our plan is to expand more throughout Central Virginia-

Rich Meagher:

Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Battle:

… and to recruit and retain more of our participants, to recruit more participants, um, to look at providing more larger scale, what we call kitchen clinics or kitchen demonstrations-

Rich Meagher:

Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Battle:

… with more professional kitchen demonstration programs. Th- that is, uh, really on the horizon and where the need is.

Rich Meagher:

Kimberly Battle is a clinical associate professor of nursing at VCU. Thanks for being with us, Kimberly.

Kimberly Battle:

Thank you, Rich, for having me. I’ve enjoyed it.

Rich Meagher:

That’s our show. Thanks to our guests, Eddie Oliver, Yaya Ogaldez, Irina Rogova, and Kimberly Battle. Tell us about your issues. Visit our website, rvasgotissues.vpm.org. Follow us on Instagram @richgotissues, or send us an email at [email protected]. Be sure to leave a review on your favorite podcasting platform. RVA’s Got Issues is produced by Max Wasserman and Rachel Dwyer. Script editing on this episode by Nicki Stein and Rachel Dwyer. Audio mixed by Steve Lack. Our theme music was composed by Alexander Hitchens. Shawn Freude is our executive producer. Steve Humble is VPM’s chief content officer. Rebekah Sausmikat is our head tabling commissioner. I’m your host, Rich Meagher. Thanks for listening.