A Bold, New Voice on City Council

Rich Meagher:

Welcome to RVAs. Got Issues, the show that brings you the people and ideas that are reshaping Greater Richmond. I’m your host, Rich Meagher. This year, the city of Richmond, welcomed three new members to its city council, the governing body that makes laws for the city. These new members might be bringing a fresh approach to city government, one that sees a role for city council in challenging the mayor, not for drama’s sake, but to hold him and city administrators accountable to residents. Sarah Abubaker is one of these newly elected council members representing the fourth district in the southwest of the city. She’s been the most vocal of these new members in calling for change. Can she make it happen? Councilwoman, welcome.

Sarah Abubaker:

Thank You.

Rich Meagher:

So, Sarah, for our listeners, we should give full disclosure here. We’ve worked together before. You’re my former next door neighbor. Literally.

Sarah Abubaker:

Yes. Yeah.

Rich Meagher:

And you’ve been engaged in civic life for years, but how’s life now as a public official? Supposedly, I’m putting big scare quotes here, part-time public Official.

Sarah Abubaker:

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean, it’s great to think that my fourth district residency started by moving in next door to you,

Rich Meagher:

Yeah, exactly.

Sarah Abubaker:

Um, 14 years ago, and here we are now. I mean, I don’t, I don’t think either one of us had this planned right. Um, in our, I don’t think this was on our Bingo cards, but I’m really glad that we, uh, we got here. The, the public official thing is funny. Yeah. ’cause you know, it doesn’t feel much different than it has since I’ve been super engaged in the community for a long time. Like now I’m just kind of getting paid for it and I have a little bit more authority.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Sarah Abubaker:

But people have always been coming to me for problem solving, either because they A, know, I understand, and have been able to navigate government, or b, because they know that I’m a just a problem solver kind of person, and I’m gonna be a dog with a bone if they come to me and say they’ve got something going on.

Rich Meagher:

So speaking of a dog with a bone, right. We just came outta the budget season. Mm-hmm. You raised concerns particularly about salary increases in this very tight budget. Why was it so important for you to kind of hammer at that point during this budget season?

Sarah Abubaker:

Yeah. I mean, look, I respect government workers. I have been a government worker myself, and I definitely respect the work that Mayor Avula is trying to do with his team. For me, salaries were just one of those pieces. It was, it was a $18 million pot of mm-hmm. New salary money that we were looking at. And I, you know, as we’re thinking about what are these hard choices we’re gonna have to do as a city, that seemed like low hanging fruit to me. Right. And so I think for me it was one, acknowledging that while for a long time the city did not compensate its people fairly, in the last three to four years, we have made great strides. And in some cases we are far superseding our county counterparts for a city with a much smaller population than Chesterfield or Henrico.

Rich Meagher:

You know, you were also pushing on the residency requirements piece, right? The Mayor Avula wanted to loosen the residency requirements for some positions where, you know, if you were gonna hire a department head, they didn’t necessarily have to live in the city. I mean, Danny argued on this show, right? Yeah. I need the best people and I can’t have any restrictions in the way of getting the best talent. Is he wrong about that Argument?

Sarah Abubaker:

He’s not wrong. I think the argument is flawed because you’re making a supposition that the best people don’t wanna live in the community that they’re serving. And I think that’s where, like, we have a fundamental difference. If we truly believe the things that we say, right? That like RVA is on the rise, that we’re up and coming, it is, you know, number two real estate market, um, in the country that we’re the best place to visit according to CNN, then we should know that people wanna live here and wanna be a part of that. I’m not asking everybody to live in the city. I’m asking the people who create the systems and processes that we all have to live with. And I think you have to experience the system you are trying to build in order for that system to get better and for you to figure out its fail points. So I think for those people that segment, it’s super necessary.

Rich Meagher:

You were really like deep into the weeds on this budget. Like, are you like carrying it around with you to the grocery store? Are you sleeping with It?

Sarah Abubaker:

Yes, I did sleep with it. Um, I did. Uh, it is not a comfortable sleep partner, I can tell you that. Um, for me, you know, this being my first year, in order for me to speak to something, I have to deeply understand it. Mm. And so I really needed to go deep in the budget. And so there were oftentimes that my liaison Timmy kind of gave me the, like Leslie Knope Parks and Rec reference. ’cause I’m toting this thing around like it’s my security blanket.

Rich Meagher:

So Leslie Knope Sure. But, you know, Leslie Knope had some experience, like, you’re brand new in this job. Why do you feel like that you’ve gotta be on top of things here?

Sarah Abubaker:

I feel a great responsibility for being trusted with the fourth district and with the city as a whole. As a person who has lived here basically my entire life. I love this city, like in the marrow of my bones. And so for me, like what other year, if I’m not doing this from the jump, then what, what are we doing? Right? Yeah. Like, if not now, when, because this is when we’re gonna have the most energy. This is when we’ve got the biggest mandate, this is when people are, are counting on us, right? Like, this is a critical time. And I feel very deeply committed to that. And so I do, you know, have a tendency of going really deep into things but I, I mean, that’s what we’re supposed to do.

Rich Meagher:

So you came out of this budget season really wanting to change the process. You and Kenya Gibson actually voted no on this budget in part because of these process concerns. So what’s so bad about the current budget process? Why did you call it broken?

Sarah Abubaker:

Yeah, I mean, so this is something that I’ve been trying to kind of pull back the curtain on and share with people. Because again, I think that my job, in addition to, you know, being a voice for the people I represent and the people I don’t represent, is to educate so that they can then feel empowered. And so in December, we’re going through sort of orientation and council member Breton and I sat down with the mayor’s administration and they walked us through like, this is how the administration works 1 0 1. And the last piece of that was with the, um, director of planning and budget and the, um, now interim CAO Sabrina Joy-Hogg. And they kind of laid out for us at that time, there was like a 50 or $60 million budget shortfall they were calling it mm-hmm . And so they were sort of laying out the, this is gonna be really bad, here’s the fiscal cliff, and like, this is what collective bargaining has done to us. And they went on for a while, right about that, for about like an hour. And at some point, and she probably knew right then and there that I was gonna be a pain in the butt. I looked at her and I said, you’ve been talking for an hour now about your budget and you haven’t once with two new council members asked us what our priorities are. And she looked me straight in the face and she said, I didn’t ask you what your priorities are because I have no intention of incorporating council’s priorities.

Rich Meagher:

Yikes.

Sarah Abubaker:

Something to that gist, right? Yeah. Like, it was, it was very much like, oh, okay, I see who you are now. Right, um, and I see what this is, and she’ll disagree that that happened, but like for me, at that moment, it was a pivotal pulling back the curtain and saying, oh, this is how it has gone. And I think that’s why some of my like colleagues, they might not feel as empowered to change it because this has been how things have happened. I don’t think this is true of this administration, but I think that in the past, sort of, if you didn’t go along with it, like there was, you know, um, retribution for your district or for that council member that you’re not gonna get a lot of things moved through that year.

Rich Meagher:

And so you want more input for city council in this budget process. Danny, you know, we talked to him on this show. He said he’s on board. He wants to create more of a voice. How are you gonna hold him to that promise?

Sarah Abubaker:

I do believe our mayor, I think the way that we hold each other accountable, I don’t, I don’t think it’s holding one person accountable or one side accountable or the other is by having these sort of routine checks and to the public, making sure, sharing out what is happening so that if we’re not making progress or we’re not doing the things we say we we’re gonna do, hopefully people like you and I know people, my people in the fourth will, you know, start asking questions. And gosh, I don’t, I don’t want to have to say that I said I was gonna do this. And then three months later I haven’t done anything.

Rich Meagher:

So, speaking of, of annoying people like me asking annoying questions, uh, council just fired the inspector general, uh, the city’s fraud investigator in a closed door meeting, you know, one city council member, Reva Trammell was left outta that meeting, didn’t feel like she knew what was going on. Is there any chance that you’ll buck the trend of silence on personnel issues and let people know what has happened there?

Sarah Abubaker:

I think eventually there will be more to share. There are lines that are not for me to cross, and I think personnel issues or anything kind of in closed session, there’s a reason why it’s closed. Like, we take that really, really seriously. So I, I do think that I, it is again, my responsibility to kind of have a level of confidentiality in that.

Rich Meagher:

Sure. But doesn’t it seem a, a little hypocritical, like you can understand why residents are, are frustrated with city council members or city government, you know, administrators saying personnel issues as a kind of blanket explanation for why they can never reveal what happens to people in, in city government. Right. Can you get the frustration that, that people might feel about that?

Sarah Abubaker:

Oh, for Sure. For sure. I mean, this would be in a private organization too. If there was a, a departure of any sort of nature that wasn’t planned, there would be some confidentiality around that. And so I think we have to make sure we’re not holding the city to this standard that we as private citizens would also ask. Like, we need to give the city and this employee some ability for confidentiality and privacy in this moment.

Rich Meagher:

Let’s go back to the budget

Sarah Abubaker:

Then.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. Right. You had also called for more scrutiny of funding for the Richmond Public Schools, right. At a time when, you know, people were talking great things about public schools and good things happening in the schools. Uh, what drove that, that call for, Hey, hey, let’s pump the brakes a little bit on just giving them everything that they’re asking for.

Sarah Abubaker:

Yeah. I, I mean, first I wanna be really clear, I worked for RPS I am a product of public schools. I believe deeply in public education. The reason why I, you know, sort of picked on RPS is it’s one of the biggest portions of our budget, right? So again, if we’re not looking at these big chunks of money and allocations that we’re making, then we’re not really doing a service to our taxpayers. And I think with RPS, if you look at RPS as a whole and its operations over the last, say, five to seven years, it’s incredible. Right? People forget this was still the biggest investment we’ve ever made in Richmond Public Schools. So I think that’s important to note.

Rich Meagher:

So a another budget item was the people’s budget of Richmond, right, the participatory budgeting. It seemed like it was not included in Mayor Avula’s. Original proposal. We talked to the mayor about it. He said, no, we were trying to make sure that the projects were covered by other funding streams. Uh, it’s all good. I’ve talked to my city council colleagues and we’re gonna try and fund that as as much as we can. Is, is that how this works? Right? The, these conversations behind the scenes where it seems like you and the, the mayor, the council, the mayor might be at odds, but there’s conversations going on beneath that that enable more things to be happening.

Sarah Abubaker:

Oh, for sure. For sure. And you know, to be honest, I’m not necessarily privy to all those conversations ’cause that’s happening at council leadership level.

Rich Meagher:

Mm.

Sarah Abubaker:

But I do know that that is certainly how these things work. And again, I think we need to do a better job as a city of showing that collegiality that is happening behind the scenes. I think the entire budget is the people’s budget. So what we could do is put a lot more emphasis in engaging the public as a part of this budget process. And I hope in addition to doing the hard work internally, we do a lot of that hard work externally. I know I will, I know I’ll be communicating every step of the way with my residents, and I hope that, um, we can do that sort of as a whole.

Rich Meagher:

So, getting back to your approach, one thing I noticed, you know, every city council member sends out newsletters to their constituents. Yours has metrics in it, right? Numbers the number of 3 1 1 calls in your district, the number of emails and, and phone calls from your constituents that are fielded by your office. What are you trying to do with these numbers? What are you trying to say about the work of a city council member?

Sarah Abubaker:

Well, one, again, I’m a, I’m a data geek. Yeah. So I, I just think that those are super important and they just like a budget, like numbers tell a story. And so I think in pursuit of making sure people feel deeply informed, I wanna share those metrics because those are real metrics that we have week over week, year over year. I mean, every single constituent request goes into a spreadsheet that we have. And so I’m able to then dive in and do my little Yeah. Um, pivot tables and figure out like, where are we getting the most constituent requests, right? Like that’s of interest to people. Um, and then I can also flag that for the administration and, and my counterparts that I work with and really enjoy working with in the city administration.

Rich Meagher:

And so what are your constituents telling you? Like what are they reaching out to you about?

Sarah Abubaker:

It’s potholes. It’s speeding. It’s litter, it’s bulk pickup. It’s like the stuff that touches residents every single day. And honestly, that’s why I’ve always loved local government because it has such a direct impact on residents. And so, like, we just got Forest Hill Avenue redone rep paved, and we put in some speed tables because they’re speeding near the park. And I’m getting texts from people now saying, love the speed bumps, like, this is so great. Like, thank you so much. That sort of direct feedback, um, whether it’s positive or negative is super affirming when you’re in this work.

Rich Meagher:

And so, underneath that too, though, right? I’m, I’m wondering if you’re hearing not just the specific, like problem solving, what’s the vibes among your constituents about some of the bigger picture concerns that they have about the city government or about the direction the city’s going in?

Sarah Abubaker:

So the fourth is a little bit different. It’s a little bit older. I always say that the fourth is this like perfect microcosm of the country. It’s a long, skinny slice of the city. And you sort of start in the eastern most part of the district, which is, you know, forest Hill area. And then as you go west, it becomes more right-leaning, I’m just gonna say you can have a, a socialist on the Eastern, most part. And you can have a Trumper on the Western most part. So I just wanna like kind of give you that context because it depends on where you are. And it depends on who you’re talking to in the fourth, right? There are people who literally used to live in Chesterfield in the fourth district, and now they live in the city.

Rich Meagher:

’cause it city annexed that part of Chesterfield has now became part of the city.

Sarah Abubaker:

Yeah. They didn’t move, right? We were, yeah. And they didn’t move. They were like, they, we were the last piece of that annexation before they halted that. So, you know, there are people who still are like, I wish I was in Chesterfield, and like this, you know, there’s just gonna be people who think that the city isn’t doing right by them. And to a certain extent that’s true. Right? And then there’s gonna be people who just moved in from dc, New York, New Hampshire, you know, Seattle, and they’re like, Hey, this isn’t so bad. This is pretty good. Right? Um, so I kind of like to mix those together. I do understand as a resident, I don’t know if the city’s objectively gotten worse or isn’t serving people better, because in a lot of ways we are, what Bobby Vincent has done with roads in the city of Richmond is incredible.

Rich Meagher:

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Abubaker:

And if you just have to remember what roads were like 15 years ago,

Rich Meagher:

Right.

Sarah Abubaker:

And now, I mean, we’ve got traffic calming, we’ve got bike lanes. We’re doing really cool, innovative stuff. And so that’s the good stuff that we need to, to focus on. And then the stuff that needs to be fixed, I assure people, I’m gonna make sure that, uh, we’re not forgetting about that either.

Rich Meagher:

And so, are your constituents coming to you and talking about what’s happening in dc Are they talking to you about what’s happening in the economy, about tariffs, about the broader picture e either in hoping for help or just to, to rant to somebody that they see as an authority?

Sarah Abubaker:

I don’t know if anybody sees me as an authority, uh, I’m not even the boss in my own household. My my 2-year-old is,

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Sarah Abubaker:

But of late, that’s starting to come up, you know, just in terms of how the federal budget and the uncertainty around the federal government may or may not impact local government. And I know that Mayor Avula came on and talked about how we lost that $12 million grant for the water facility. And, you know, there’s substantial social services that may be at risk because of things in the federal government. And then not to mention all the, the tariffs. I mean, my partner is at a distillery and they have stuff that’s sitting at the Canadian border right now because of the tariff war. So I do think that that’s something that’s coming up more and more early on that was not the case. It was like, we’ve got enough going on here at the city. Yeah. Let’s, let’s focus on that. Um, and like a lot of these problems in the nation and across the world are so big. And I just, I feel like I can’t fix that. Like my locus of control is like, if I can just fix this tiny sliver of the planet, like I feel better about bringing a human into this world. That doesn’t mean that my efforts aren’t going to be impacted by the larger global Yeah. Environment.

Rich Meagher:

We’ll hear more from Richmond City council member Sarah Abubaker, when we come back on RVAs Got issues, we’re back with Richmond City Council members, Sarah Abu Barker. So last year we talked to former city council members, Kristen and I, and Mike Jones on the show. And they told us about getting to five.

Sarah Abubaker:

I loved that. I loved that show. It was so good. Yeah. It was so informative.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. And, and so this idea that you need five votes to get anything done out of the nine person city council on budget didn’t seem like you were quite there yet, although more than the two who voted against the budget, you and Kenny Gibson are sharing your process concerns. Right. We’re hearing a lot about that from a lot of members of council. Is is there a kind of old guard versus new guard dynamic forming on the council right now?

Sarah Abubaker:

I actually don’t think so. I think that we have a lot to learn from Old Guard, as you would say. I mean, there’s a reason why people like Dr. Newville and council member Trammell and Council Member Robertson have been on for so long. They know how to work it. Right. And so I watch them a lot and I ask them a lot of questions because I, I do think that they, understand how to navigate city government and communities in a way that I just, I don’t have the years under my belt to do that. Even though I’ve been doing this work for really long time, they’ve been doing it for much longer. That doesn’t mean I, I think this is something that like, I hope I can emphasize. I think that if you love something, again, loving the city and loving this role on council is that you, like you, you have to like, give hard truths.

And so I, you know, I’ll say, well, why, why did we do that? Or what, like, what was your rationale behind that? Or is there a better way to do that? Like, I think that you, like, those are the, those are the, the conversations we’re having. But I also think that they really enjoy somebody who’s coming in with energy and is, is asking those questions. ’cause I think some of them will say like, yeah, like I, I, I want, like, I wanna change that too. And that’s why, again, I felt like I needed to do a lot of that work for the budget, because it’s like, if you feel like it’s broken too, but like you don’t really, for whatever reason, like have the bandwidth to like do this lift of digging in. I’m happy to do that. This is the coolest thing I’ve ever done <laugh>. It’s exhausting. Yeah. And it’s hard, but it is. Awesome.

Rich Meagher:

And so do you think if that working the system, the the lessons that you’re learning require you to be a little less vocal, a little more behind the scenes? Uh, are you ready for that kind of compromise?

Sarah Abubaker:

Yeah. Oh yeah. And I think this is why, um, my council colleagues do appreciate me is because anything that I said in public, I said in private probably three times before I went to public. Right. Like, like, hey, I think this is, I think there’s so, like this is kind of messed up.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Sarah Abubaker:

You know, as, uh, president new Bill has said, like, she knew I was going to say no, I never want anything to be a surprise. I’m not here to have gotcha moments in front of the public. I’m still just going to be like making a point in public. But those conversations again to, you know, to Mayor Avula’s point, they’re happening, um, in the background

Rich Meagher:

Now. You are are I think, carving out a, a, a hopefully bigger role for council in the budget process, maybe in policymaking. Uh, but we’re talking about nine different representatives, nine different districts, nine different agendas. Can council really come together to balance or check the mayor and to be another voice in city government?

Sarah Abubaker:

I mean, I, I don’t think we have a choice, right? And that doesn’t mean, again, that there’s not gonna be dissension. I think dissension is incredibly important. I wasn’t trying to whip votes for voting no against the budget. I knew the budget was a done deal to me, my dissension was my ability to have a platform to share what I felt was good about the budget and what needed to change, both in the budget itself and how we prioritize things, but also the system itself. And so I, I think we can get to five sometimes it’s like, you know, duct tape and rubber bands and chewing gum. And you’re right. Like there’s a ton of personalities. And I’m working on my first piece of legislation, which is the residency requirement. And you know, we have five co patrons, which is great. ’cause it means that hopefully, um, knock on wood, that when we bring this to council, it’s done and hopefully others will see the value of it. But like that process of getting that legislation to where five different people were like, you know, well I kind of think that it should be this or like, have you thought about this exemption or this? And so you’re doing a lot of that. It, it’s a dance, but again, I love people, so I think it’s a fun dance to do.

Rich Meagher:

And so thinking about what’s coming down the pipeline, right? Uh, there’s, you know, your own legislation, but there’s also this big code refresh, right? Mm-hmm. The big changes to zoning regulation. Are you worried that it’s gonna be like the budget process where the administration hands you a thing and says, well, we either pass it or don’t, but this is the thing. Are you finding changes in that process yet?

Sarah Abubaker:

I think that the zoning team, the planning team has done a great job of engaging council. And I think that they’ve done a great job of engaging the public. I mean, the fact that there are so many people who show up to these code refresh enrichment 300, um, meetings and are a part of this, it just speaks for how much engagement work they’re actually doing on the front end. So I think that’s not a concern. If we were doing that for the budget, we’d be in good shape.

Rich Meagher:

So before we go Yeah. You said this was awesome, this is a, the coolest job you’ve ever had. What’s your favorite part of it? What are you really liking about being City Council member?

Sarah Abubaker:

I think that people’s stories are really interesting. And so the fact that I get to hear from all types of people all the time, um, and hear their stories and how the city has impacted them, or sometimes it’s just to get to know me. I’ve met so many new people in the last 12, 18 months that I never would’ve had an opportunity to meet. And that’s fascinating. ’cause at the end of the day, like I said, the work is hard, but if it stops being fun, we gotta get out. Right.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Sarah Abubaker:

But right now it’s hard and it’s, it is so much fun, but it’s the people that make it fun.

Rich Meagher:

Sarah Abubaker represents the fourth district on the Richmond City Council. Thanks for being here.

Sarah Abubaker:

Thanks for having me.

Rich Meagher:

That’s our show. Thanks to our guest, Sarah Abubaker. Find out more about our show and tell us about your issues at our website, rvas.issues.vpm.org. Remember to tell your friends about us, share a social media post or leave a review on your favorite podcasting platform. RVAs Got Issues is produced by Max Waserman and Rachel Dwyer. Script editing by Rachel Dwyer. Audio mixed by Steve Lack. Our intern is Cate McKenzie. Our theme music was composed by Alexander Hitchens. Meg Lindholm is our executive producer. Steve Humble is VP’s Chief Content Officer. I’m your host, Rich Meagher. Thanks for listening.