Immigrants’ Fears Run Rampant in RVA

Rich Meagher:

Welcome to RVAs. Got Issues, the show that brings you the people and ideas that are reshaping Greater Richmond. I’m your host, Rich Meagher. The immigration crackdown is here. It seems like every day brings new national news stories about deportations, ice raids, or student visas being revoked. This is fueling fear, not just in the immigrant community, but even among students and people here in the country legally.

Vox-pop:

My friend Hegner, I don’t think he’s getting his green card until next year. And so it’s like what will happen to him? What will happen to his younger brother, his mom, his dad, his grandma, his uncle.

Rich Meagher:

The Trump administration’s aggressive enforcement is raising questions of due process and legality, but it’s also supported by a sizable percentage of Americans who just want immigrants out. And to some self deportation is the point. So on today’s episode, we’ll talk to the experts who can tell us how is this immigration crackdown affecting people in Virginia and Richmond? We’re sitting here with Elvira de la Cruz. She’s the CEO and Senior Advocate of the Latinos in Virginia Empowerment Center, or LIVE a nonprofit based in Chesterfield County, which helps Latinos experiencing sexual and domestic violence. Welcome Elvira.

Elvira De la Cruz:

Thank you very much, for the invitation. I’m happy to be here.

Rich Meagher:

Well, let’s talk a little bit about the work you do at live, just kind of broadly. You’re working with victims of domestic or or sexual abuse?

Elvira De la Cruz:

Yes. So Latinos in Virginia right now work in two levels. One is we serve the whole state because we operate at 24 7 bilingual hotline, where a person that is depicting of domestic sexual violence can immediately have access to a person that is bilingual and is a trained advocate all in one person. And then at the local level, we have two empowerment centers. One is located in Chesterfield County, uh, and that provides services for the greater Richmond area. And those are direct services that include counseling. We provide a support group. We have case managers. We provide court companion, hospital companion, uh, for victims of domestic sexual violence.

Rich Meagher:

You work with members of the Latino community and RVA, uh, some of these folks are undocumented. What have you heard about how people are feeling right now? What, what might have changed since this new administration came into power Earlier this year?

Elvira De la Cruz:

The big things that we have seen is that people is more scared about getting help from the system, even though we know that there are places that are safe. Like if you’re being abused, the police is going to protect you. We know that that is maybe not an option right now for many people because they feel scared. We know that if you need help paying rent, you can go to social services and they have programs to help you, and that is a safe place to go. But the perception right now, because all these policies or changes that are happening is making people feel more afraid to access services. And there are people that many times are suffering in silence. And in the case of domestic and sexual violence, so many times the abusers are telling them Nobody’s going to help you. And the news and all this conversation are just reinforcing that nobody’s going to help them. You remember Covid, everybody was in their houses, right? We don’t go outside because danger was outside. So that is the feeling that the Latino community is having, and many families are being isolating at home. In January this year, many people stopped sending their kids to school. Many people stopped working.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Elvira De la Cruz:

And that creates other problems. And even though there haven’t been activities from ICE in the greater Richmond area, we see that there are a lot of misinformation going around, especially in the Latino group, the group chat, the WhatsApp.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Elvira De la Cruz:

Because people just see a police officer and they take pictures and says, ice here. And then we actually talk with the police, or we talk with the authorities and they say, no, it was part of our work we were doing. But that was creating a lot of disinformation and fear in the community. And in January, February, you were going to places where the Latino community usually congregate. They were not there. I went to a grocery store where we know that there are a lot of Latinos there.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah.

Elvira De la Cruz:

They sell Latino food in February. All the aisles were empty, or what you see, there were kids, and then you see the parking lot. The parking lot was full of people waiting for the kids that were grocery shopping because they were afraid.

Rich Meagher:

So it’s like, the kids are safer than I am. I’m gonna send the kids in to do the shopping and I’m gonna hide out here in in the parking lot just in case. So you’re describing this kind of culture of fear that’s growing right? Among folks in the Latino community for undocumented folks, they’re worried about enforcement. You’re saying there’s not actually any kind of increased activity, at least around here in rva, but with national news, not necessarily paranoid to think that something might happen?

Elvira De la Cruz:

Yeah, and the feeling is real. I mean, there are going to be family separated. We don’t know what’s going to happen with the kids as parents are taking away. But there has been also a lot of conversation about how to prepare for, right? So there are places where you can go and they are making power of attorneys just in case something happened with them. What is going to happen with the kids? What’s going to happen with their property? And then the need for places where Latino community trusts, because they may not be going to mainstream organizations because they perceive that that may not be a safe place. They are turning to seek help in places that are culturally specific, that they feel more comfortable speaking freely about what is the situation.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. And so you’re doing a lot of, at least connecting people to other resources. Are there enough resources for immigrants and where are the safe options that you’re sending people towards?

Elvira De la Cruz:

Well, in the past five years since the pandemic started, there were more attention to the cultural specific needs of mm-hmm. The Latino population in Greater Richmond. For example, you have the Sacred Heart Center Church in downtown, that they have English classes. They provide immigration services too. So you can call directly and receive services. There are culturally specific food bank that is called Way Making foundations, that is in Hull Street that they provide food. We have La Casa De La Salud, uh, organization that is working with health issues and educations. Those are the ones that come to my mind. But the need is Huge.

Rich Meagher:

So we should be clear here. We’re talking about a lot of folks who might be undocumented. We’re also talking about the Latino community more broadly. What about the folks who are documented who have that legal status? Is this climate of fear also spreading to them?

Elvira De la Cruz:

Yes. I’m going speak for myself, my experience, right?

Rich Meagher:

Mm-hmm.

Elvira De la Cruz:

You see me, I look Latina.

Rich Meagher:

Hmm.

Elvira De la Cruz:

You can tell that I have an accent. You can tell that English is not my first language. And, uh, that make you have assumptions about if I am or not a US citizen. Actually, I am a US citizen, and since the elections, we have seen a lot of hate and people that feel empowered to act in that hate. One day I was in the grocery store with my mother that is 60, and she doesn’t speak English, she speak Spanish. And I was talking to her in Spanish, and somebody behind me in the line feel encouraged to say good things that they’re going to send back soon. And I didn’t say anything, but I was thinking like, why this person is really attacking me, that I am just grocery shopping here. Right?

Rich Meagher:

Right.

Elvira De la Cruz:

And assuming that I don’t have the right to be here, I have the right to be here. And the other piece that I, uh, I have to deal with, there were a lot of hate in the schools. And my daughter, uh, one day came home and says, mommy, are you going to be deported? My grandma going to be deported. She was asking me because once her friends was bullying the school, and one guy says, oh, because you are going to be deporting or your family. And I was, imagine the conversation that maybe that family has to have with the kids if they don’t have the legal documentation, I may know the trauma that is happening to those kids, uh, because now they are thinking that that is a possibility and they may not be protected by the parents, how kids that are going through that pain and trauma can actually be in school and learn and thrive. Right?

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. Yeah. So you, you have this experience in the grocery store. Your kid is having this experience at school, right? Where, where people are feeling more emboldened to say, you know, go back to your country, even though mm-hmm <affirmative>. Even that you are in your country. You know, a a lot of people in America do want changes to immigration, right? They do wanna make it harder for immigrants to stay in the country. What would you say to folks who are in favor of, of cracking down on immigration?

Elvira De la Cruz:

Mm-hmm. I just feel that right now the people is sending people back without even evaluating the situation. And what is the experience? What are the scenes that these people can contribute to this country and has been contributed to this country? And I think that that has to be taught in a different way. There are big problem with immigration that has to be solved, but scaring people tear families apart. Uh, it is not the way

Rich Meagher:

You are here. You’ve decided it’s important to speak up. Why did you feel like it was important to come here and talk to us about this?

Elvira De la Cruz:

People need to know how we are feeling this situation. More people need to hear from our community how that is affecting us. There are people with anxiety, there are people with depression. There are people that have lost hope in our community because they don’t know what to do. We wanna make sure that people know that mental health is a big issue. And if we don’t provide the intervention, if we don’t provide the support, bad thing happen when people don’t get help. And we all live here together. And that’s what’s important. Everybody should be worried about that. My kids are going to school with probably your kids, right? So if my kid are not receiving help, they are knowing stable house. They are going to also impact your kids. We can do something to help people that live in our neighborhoods, people that are part of our community, we all are going to benefit from that.

Rich Meagher:

Elvira De La Cruz is CEO of the Latinos in Virginia Empowerment Center. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you very much. If you want to learn more about Elvira’s work, go to Latinosenvirginia.org. That’s Latinos EN virginia.org. Coming up, we’ll hear from an attorney who’s helping immigrants navigate this new reality. That’s when we come back on RVA’s Got issues. We’re now joined by Rohmah Javed, an attorney with a legal aid justice center, an anti-poverty non-profit with offices in Richmond, Charlottesville, and Falls Church. She’s the legal director of their immigrant justice program. Rohmah, welcome.

Rohmah Javed:

Thank you for having me, rich.

Rich Meagher:

Now, Rohmah, you’ve been doing this work for a bit. You were doing this kind of work during the first Trump administration. I’m getting the sense that things feel very different this time around.

Rohmah Javed:

Absolutely. Rich. I was an immigration attorney under the previous administration. Mm-hmm. Undoubtedly this time feels and is different. We’re seeing far more rapid pre-planned intentional attacks on immigrant communities that feel more confusing, more constant, uh, and more debilitating. And it’s very different than the last time, uh, that this administration was in office. While we saw significant anti-immigrant rhetoric and policy then too, this time feels much heavier and feels much more difficult to navigate.

Rich Meagher:

And, and, and previous administrations have pursued border enforcement deportations, but the current administration does seem to be going beyond that. Right. We’re seeing student visas, revoke green cards, pause, uh, here in Virginia, governor Youngin has just touted this, uh, Virginia Homeland Security task force and the 500 arrests that they’ve pursued in the last few months. Now, the thing is, a lot of Americans seem to want this, right? They support this. Why should people be concerned about this, uh, aggressive enforcement?

Rohmah Javed:

Well, I think there are many ways to, to answer that question. Mm. Altogether these attacks against immigrants are concerning. I mean, there is the narrative and the rhetoric that goes behind these policies. And then there are the policies themselves to parse through. I know that Governor Youngkin released a statement about how 521 immigrants were arrested with criminal records in Virginia. And that press release and similar press releases around his executive order, 47, which authorized state troopers to conduct some ice enforcement conflate intentionally criminals and immigrants. And that messaging is done intentionally to perpetuate fear mongering, equate them as one in the same, and sort of push that narrative, which is incredibly problematic. It only seeks to exclude and disempower people.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. And so there’s the, this kind of like rhetoric that you’re talking about. I, I mean, there are process concerns too, right? I mean, uh, the Maryland man, uh, in El Salvador is sort of the big example from national, uh, politics. But does, does this enforcement seem arbitrary or, or improperly applied?

Rohmah Javed:

Well, I’ll say this. We have yet to see any specific evidence showing how any of the 521 people that Governor Youngin named were determined to be criminals. What they were accused of having done, whether those accusations were based on reliable information, it’s easy to say someone’s a criminal or a gang member, but proving that beyond a reasonable doubt is what our constitution has required for 250 years. So while the press release mentions that people are swept up and are facing justice for their crimes, there’s no indication of what that actually means. So as we’ve seen on the national stage in the rush to do this sort of mass deportation, the accuracy of these characterizations of immigrants as criminals, terrorists, or gang members has been debated and questioned.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. And so it’s, it’s not just the sort of how that we’re talking about too. It’s also the, the where, like, where enforcement is happening. Uh, just, you know, recently there was this kind of high profile detainment of, uh, uh, an immigrant Albemarle County courthouse here in Virginia. Are you familiar with this case?

Rohmah Javed:

Yes. I believe two people were, were detained in that, yeah. Uh, ice enforcement action that you mentioned. There has been increased enforcement in courthouses in unexpected ways that we have seen. And the increased enforcement we are seeing, especially across Virginia, has been mostly at courthouses or related to criminal court related proceedings, such as at probation officers or around criminal court dockets. Uh, and then at apartment complexes where there are high density populations of Immigrants.

Rich Meagher:

Let’s take a look at, at video of this arrest here, um, because it, it’s pretty jarring.

Archival:

Do not touch me. You touched me. or impede me in my lawful duties. Ma’am, do you understand it is a crime for you to do so? Why do you have a warrant for his Arrest? Do you have a warrant for his arrest? Yes. Where? show us the Warrant. Grab him. Show us a warrant for his arrest warrant signed by a judge. Get off me, or I’m calling the US attorney and prosecuting you for assault on a federal officer. Show us the warrant for his arrest. Show us a warrant signed by a judge. Turn him Around. You don’t have A Warrant, sir. Show us a warrant for his arrest. We are officers with Homeland Security. You don’t have a Warrant signed by a judge.

Rich Meagher:

I mean, that, that is pretty, pretty jarring. Uh, you know that they don’t seem to have a warrant that the men who are, are doing the arresting or are covered with masks on, is that legal? Can ice enforcement, can federal agents do this?

Rohmah Javed:

That’s a tough question. Yeah. Um, and the line between legal and illegal gets murkier every day. I will say it’s absolutely egregious. The plain clothes, uh, one of the officers or purported officers is wearing a ski mask. I noticed in the video they are refusing to answer questions or show ID or identify themselves at all. And I would pause it that there are significant constitutional violations there.

Rich Meagher:

So the Trump administration says they’re doing this to get criminals outta the country. Right. Same with Governor Youngkin’s executive order and, and task force. Uh, you said earlier that you take issue with this narrative. So who are these immigrants if they’re not criminals, right? What’s the alternative story that we should hear about who these folks are?

Rohmah Javed:

Well, I can share this, rich. My program is connected to the Virginia for Immigrant Families Rapid Response hotline. We’ve gathered some information through doing consults and that representation. We are not seeing that high proportion of felony or criminal offenses as, as sort of is being painted. Uh, while we do certainly see some of that, it’s definitely a mixed bag. And the proportion of criminal immigrants is significantly lower than what’s being presented.

Rich Meagher:

So like the idea is that it’s not just that everybody here is a gang member that gets swept up in these, in these raids or gets ar arrested and, and deported. That some folks are just people who happen to be on the scene, or these are folks without documentation, but they don’t seem to have committed any other crime. Is that the idea?

Rohmah Javed:

There are a lot of folks that fall into that category. Rich. We often will call and do a consultation and the person will have been picked up because someone in their home, there was a warrant issued for that arrest, and perhaps someone opened the door ice, then went in and detained everyone. Those sorts of arrests are much more common and frequent than the few that have been intentional and targeted.

Rich Meagher:

Now, you told our producer that many of the people you work with are, uh, ending up at these federal detention centers. Right? There are two nearby, uh, US in Virginia. Right. There’s one out in Farmville and there’s one up in Caroline County. Uh, what do we know about the conditions that these detention centers now that the Trump administration has ramped up all this enforcement?

Rohmah Javed:

There are the two detention centers in Virginia. You have that right? It’s the Farmville Detention Center and the Caroline Detention Center. And both of them have significantly increased the number of people that they’re holding. Mm-hmm. My best guess is that they are just creating space to detain as many people as possible. So in February, a lot of people were calling us, particularly from the Caroline and Farmville detention facilities, especially at Caroline reporting overcrowding, double bunking, internal changes in policies that were leading to people sleeping on floors, uh, and dorms kind of doubling in size. In addition, Caroline Detention Center is also detaining women. That started to happen around December, or we started to hear reports of that, and that was not happening previously.

Rich Meagher:

So besides the general environment, right, there’s been some very specific federal laws passed policy changes. Uh, for example, like the IRS is now sharing information with ice, uh, which is causing problems for, for folks paying taxes. There’s also this Alien Registration Act. Could you explain what this does and and what kind of pressure it puts on folks who are undocumented?

Rohmah Javed:

Absolutely. So the Alien Registration Act is asking for essentially all undocumented immigrants that are not already in the immigration system or on the federal government’s radar to affirmatively register. Hmm. And this requirement is applicable to children over 14 as well. Parents will be held liable if they don’t register their children, and the deadlines are sort of unclear around how quickly this needs to happen. So it has created a lot of anxiety in the community.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. And, and so you were telling our producers about, um, like a, a particular event you folks were trying to schedule and it didn’t go the way that it normally goes. Is that right?

Rohmah Javed:

Yeah. This past weekend in Arlington, we held a family preparedness clinic where we were hoping to help between 100 and 200 families fill out applications for power of attorney forms. Those are the forms that they can fill out to protect their finances and assets in case a family member is deported and stand by guardianship forms to help protect children, uh, in case of deportation and detention. And, uh, while we had people signed up for appointments that had pre-registered and quite a few people that we expected to walk in, no one showed up. What we learned and what most people cited was that a video of, uh, immigration and customs enforcement in Maryland that was filmed smashing a car window to pull an immigrant out at a traffic stop had caused so much fear that people were choosing to stay home. And I think the messaging behind the policy is, is clear immigrants are unwelcome here.

Uh, the goal is to essentially scare people into self deporting or registering, and it’s quite difficult to decipher. Uh, I fear that many immigrants may register when they don’t need to or are already considered registered. It’s also intersects with all of the other policy changes that we’re seeing. Immigrants are now worried about filing their taxes. And alien registration also intersects with Governor Jenkin’s order as it relates to the state troopers and state police. When people are driving around now, they will have to carry around their driver’s license or their driver’s privilege card. And folks under this alien registration requirement will also need to carry their alien registration card. So that is going to have significant implications as people travel for work or drive around, uh, and have to produce id. And more and more state officials are being deputized as being able to enforce for ice. So that, that’s quite challenging and difficult and puts immigrants in a, in a tricky position.

Rich Meagher:

Right. So they essentially have to carry on a card that says, by the way, I’m an undocumented person and I can be deported any time. And so any interaction with the government authority is gonna become fraught and and they can be punished if they don’t register. Right.

Rohmah Javed:

Exactly. They can be punished if they don’t register, and they can be punished if they don’t carry around the physical alien registration card as well.

Rich Meagher:

So they’re essentially, you know, damned if you do, or damned if you don’t. Right. You’re still exposing yourself to, uh, some form of prosecution or, or arrest, uh, detaining from the government whether you register or whether you don’t.

Rohmah Javed:

Exactly. That’s what it feels like with a lot of these policies. It feels like a no-win situation.

Rich Meagher:

Hmm. So how are, uh, all these changes in federal and state policy affecting what you folks do? Right? How are you changing your approach to try to help people, uh, navigate this new environment?

Rohmah Javed:

It’s impacting us quite significantly. Yeah. I think for advocates, there are a whole new host of challenges. I mean, navigating these policies ourselves and counseling clients and community members on them, navigating sort of the threats against advocates or risks there as well. And then working through this paralyzing fear that the community has where it’s hard for them to even want to seek support or resources or access things. We are going to have to be more strategic. The old tools aren’t working or can’t work as well in this environment. Large scale community events won’t be the way to go. Yeah. We’ve decided that after this weekend. Yeah. Um, and small scale efforts feel a little less productive when the broader policies are are so terrible. We’ll have to adapt to make virtual and physical spaces more safer or more compelling for people to want to come. Uh, and probably have to think through prioritizing, protecting information, data anonymity more as well. While we can’t do much to prevent the policy from taking effect, or having it not apply to people, mitigating the impacts is going to be very key.

Rich Meagher:

So where does this issue go from here? Does the Trump administration continue to ramp up? Is there an end point or does this feel more like a beginning?

Rohmah Javed:

It feels like a beginning. Rich. I think advocates are going to have to gear up for this journey ahead of us. And now that we are just three or four months in, we need to think through long-term strategy. I don’t see this sort of enforcement or these policies winding down anytime soon. And I think we need to rise to meet the moment and re-strategize.

Rich Meagher:

So where is this, uh, kind of leaving you all in terms of morale at this point? I mean, you mentioned the, the beauty and the magic of your organization. Um, uh, we talked earlier to a nonprofit leader in Richmond who talked about like a mental health crisis among Latino residents, right? Just ’cause of the stress of this changed environment. But, but how’s this playing out among advocates and, and the legal aid community? How are you folks feeling about the future?

Rohmah Javed:

It’s very, it’s a very tough environment for us right now. And I think we are all to some extent hanging in there and trying to figure out what’s next and how we could continue to hang in there. It’s been a whirlwind of three months. I feel like I have left some presentations, sharing information, and by the time I leave the presentation, the law has changed or our policy has changed. And what I’ve said isn’t even accurate. Um, on my own team, I’ll share that. This morning one of my attorneys went to a check-in with a client who was aggressively detained and the ice officer did not take our attorney’s argument or advocacy really into consideration. So that, that’s incredibly challenging and those sorts of things are happening daily. I will also say that with funding cuts and, um, just the lack of resources in Virginia, that it’s especially, especially challenging here. Uh, but we are determined to keep our heads up. We will figure out the way to do that. I will have an answer for that at some point, I know that my team is striving to find it. That power is there, the energy is there. We just need to figure out the way to do this work that will be meaningful and impactful.

Rich Meagher:

Rohmah Javed is the legal director of the Immigrant Justice Program for the Legal Aid Justice Center. Thanks for being here, Roma.

Rohmah Javed:

Thank you, rich.

Rich Meagher:

That’s our show thanks to our guests, Elvira De La Cruz and Rohmah Javed. Next up, we wanna hear more from you. In upcoming episodes, we’ll be talking with members of the Richmond City Council and Mayor Danny Avula. If you’ve got a question, call our listener voicemail line and leave a message at 8 0 4 5 6 0 8 1 0 8. That’s 8 0 4 5 6 0 8 1 0 8. You can also visit our website, RVAs got issues.vpm.org. RVAs Got Issues is produced by Max Wasserman and Rachel Dwyer. Script editing by Donna Lack and Rachel Dwyer. Audio mix by Steve Lack. Our intern is Cate McKenzie. Special thanks to Keyris Manzanares. Our theme music was composed by Alexander Hitchens. Meg Lindholm is our executive producer. Steve Humble is VP’s Chief Content Officer. I’m your host, Rich Meagher. Thanks for listening.