The Feds vs. Higher Ed

Rich Meagher:

Welcome to RVAs. Got Issues. The show that brings you the people and ideas that are reshaping Greater Richmond. I’m your host, rich Maher. Higher education is under the Trump administration’s microscope. President Trump is threatening to cutoff billions in federal funding from institutions like Harvard and Columbia if they don’t change what they’re doing. That’s putting pressure on local institutions like Virginia Commonwealth University, VCU hasn’t been singled out, but is facing program cuts and is already making changes to try to prevent more. Where can VCU turn for help? Well, Rob Wittman has been a member of the United States House of Representatives for almost two decades. He represents Virginia’s first district, which includes parts of Chesterfield, Hanover, and Henrico County. And he’s been speaking up for Virginia higher Ed. Congressman,

Welcome,

Rob Wittman:

rich. It’s great to be with you. Thanks for the opportunity.

Rich Meagher:

So the Trump administration seems to be taking on higher ed in, in dramatic fashion. We’re in uncharted waters here. Virginia institutions are worried. You got involved to help VCU with a particular program. Right. This Richmond Teacher Residency program, this RTR program that trains new K 12 teachers, the Department of Ed CU funding, there’s legal action, a recent court order restored it, but before that, you wrote a letter to the Federal Secretary of Education saying, we need to keep this program. Why did you think this program is so important?

Rob Wittman:

Well, rich, I understand the importance of teachers because my wife taught for 42 years. Mm-hmm. My mom was a teacher, in fact, right there in the Richmond area. I grew up in Richmond, went to Benedict High School, and I got my PhD there at VCU. So, so for me, the, the institutions there and the things that they do in the realm of education are incredibly important. Uh, that RTR program, which is one that the governor helped accelerate, uh, is really critical. It is about making sure the teachers have the instruction necessary to make sure that they are helping their students perform. And the data bears that out. The data bears that. This program has been incredibly successful in helping to retain teachers, which is a challenge. We wanna retain teachers, right? We wanna make sure they’re performing at the highest level. How do we do that? We make sure we have programs that give them a proper instruction about how to be, you know, incredibly effective teachers in the classroom. And then we see from this the outcome. We see that that test scores of students have gone up significantly. So these programs work. So I just wanted to make sure I had the opportunity to let the administration know the impact of their

Rich Meagher:

Decision. Right. And, and in the letter, you, you say to the department of Ed, right? You can give VCUA chance to rewrite the grant so that it complies with President Trump’s directives. Now, that seemed to, to apply to not just the funding cuts, right? But questions about diversity and, and DEI initiatives. Is that what that meant?

Rob Wittman:

Yes. It was just saying, as administrations change, we understand. So do their directions. So do the things that they wanna require. You should allow these institutions to modify their grant applications to modify their proposals. To me, it’s just simple. It’s just saying, Hey, they, they, their, their focus is on, on something other than, uh, you know, maybe what the previous administration wanted. So let’s make sure we allow them to make those modifications.

Rich Meagher:

Right. But the modifications that would be demanded by the Trump administration is to stop considering diversity in admissions and hiring in their programming. Close any DEI offices and VCU did close their DEI office kind of preemptively. Um, do you think there’s something to this critique from the Trump administration? Are universities too out of line, too biased or too skewed in their approach to diversity?

Rob Wittman:

Listen, uh, we value diversity. Uh, the key is how do we make sure we’re focusing on meritocracy? How do we focus on making sure we’re doing everything we can for the students so their students are able to perform so they can excel? I mean, that’s really what this is all about. I I wanna make sure that that is the focus. So when the discussion occurs, it needs to be about meritocracy, about rewarding, uh, students that achieve, about making sure we help students, uh, that, that may not achieve at that highest level. Let’s help them get there. That’s what this is all, all about, I believe.

Rich Meagher:

So the specific program that RTR program, the teacher program at, uh, VCU, one of the reasons it’s been so successful is it focuses on bringing in teachers with diverse backgrounds. You mentioned the data, right? The data shows that say, minority students do better with minority teachers, that students do better when teachers look like them or have similar backgrounds. If part of the program is about seeking diversity in teacher candidates, uh, how could they rewrite the program to avoid that? Right? How do you square that circle, um, with the, the program’s goals and what the Trump administration wants?

Rob Wittman:

Well, rich, the data ought to dictate how these things are fashioned. That’s why it’s so important. The RTR program there continue because it is a databased program that uses that to make determinations about how do you, how do you make sure you give additional instructions to teachers? How do you make sure that they have the skill in the classroom to make sure they’re bringing out the best in these students from all different backgrounds? Listen, the thing that makes this nation great is we have, we have all kinds of different backgrounds and understanding those and making sure that teachers are skilled in the classroom to look at those backgrounds and to make sure that students, uh, excel and perform, I think is what this is all about.

Rich Meagher:

Do you think that the folks in the education department today are gonna be open to those kinds of data-driven approaches? If they run afoul of their concerns about DEI initiatives?

Rob Wittman:

I think that they can, I, I think that they focus on the data. The data bears this out. To me. It’s just simple and straightforward. The data shows that these teachers are accelerating test scores for students. If we’re retaining more of these teachers, those are the objectives that everybody should want to achieve. And this program has borne those out, that under this instruction program, under RTR, uh, we have a higher retention rate on teachers and students are performing better. So to me, it ought to be self-evident to say, yes, let’s continue to do this. ’cause it’s working.

Rich Meagher:

So you wrote another letter like switching gears here. You wrote another letter about indirect cost cuts at the National Institutes of Health, the NIH. So when the NIH awards a grant to researchers, they give this additional money, these indirect costs to their institution to help support the research, right? It’s for the electric bills, the building maintenance, it’s like a hundred million dollars in funding across Virginia institutions right here in VCU. It would be something like $25 million in cuts to that institution. Now, Trump, the, the Doge approach says, we don’t need this stuff. Like we can cut this dramatically. And you said, no, no, no, we do need this support. Why can’t the research universities like VCU go it alone? Why can’t they live without this

Rob Wittman:

Funding? Well, rich, I, I spent 27 years with the Department of Health and, and I did a number of joint research projects with others to develop science to make sure we were making good public health decisions within the health department. I’ve also been there to the Massey Cancer Center to see the incredible work that they do there. Uh, not only on cancer prevention, but also on cancer treatments. You know, those things are incredibly important. And those things have massive impacts, not just on the cost of healthcare in the future, but also, you know, preserving thousands of years of lives of individuals that live longer because of that research. What I wanna make sure they understand is how critical this research is. This research makes a difference in the lives of people. It will, in the future, reduce cost in the healthcare system. So those are the things I wanna make sure that they’re, that they’re focused on. If you’re going to change, then change the definition of indirect costs or just say, Hey, we’re gonna reduce the number of dollars there. That’s a much easier way, much more transparent way, much, uh, a better way for them to understand what’s gonna go on rather than this current track. So that, that’s what I was trying to impress in the letter.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. Uh, is there particular areas that you think the federal government is, is going in the wrong direction in terms of these cuts on research?

Rob Wittman:

Well, I, listen, I, I think we need to look very specifically at China and what China is doing in those areas, especially things like artificial intelligence. We have a high performance data center down in Jefferson Lab, down in Newport News that does incredible work there. I wanna make sure that those efforts not only continue, but that we look at the magnitude of research that’s being done in China, the amount of resources that they’re dedicating there. And I don’t think that we need to match them dollar for dollar, but I do think we need to look at, are we funding this at the right level to make sure that we can compete against China in the realm of artificial intelligence and quantum computing. Whoever wins that race is gonna have an economic leg up. So I wanna make sure we’re doing things like that. Another element too, you know, we talk about the cost of healthcare, and you look at the diseases out there, we’ve been successfully reducing the amount of heart disease because people are living healthier. They’re practicing good, healthy habits. Uh, the same in some areas with cancer. The way that we’re really gonna get our arms around that is to make sure we understand what are the triggers for cancer. All those are biochemical triggers. And you listen, I’m a biology major, I did molecular biology, so I get really geeky about this stuff. Yeah. But I’d love being able to understand, you know, how we can interrupt, uh, the bad proteins that cause a mutagenic cell growth that actually cause cancers. Those things have big, big

Rich Meagher:

Impacts. Do you feel that the current administration respects these kinds of goals that respects this kind of achievement? Uh, like to, just from an outside view, a lot of these cuts seem a little arbitrary or, or politically or ideologically driven, rather than recognizing this kind of like, big picture of competition and achievement that you’re talking about?

Rob Wittman:

Well, rich, I think their initial effort was to try to, to stop these things just so they could figure out, you know, what, what’s being funded? What’s going out the door? And I wanna make sure that they don’t make assumptions about things. And hearing from a member of Congress that represents these districts that have been to these universities, that have seen this research, that understands this research, I think brings to them a deeper understanding rather than just a superficial one where they say, oh, we look at all these and this is a place for us to, to save money, or a place for us to, to take a different direction. I think understanding the true impact there, uh, does help. And listen, we have contacted those cabinet secretaries a number of times and have given them this additional information. And to their credit, in, in many of these instances, they’ve said, okay, we’ll, we’ll take a step back.

Rich Meagher:

Right? And, and so the, the way you’re portraying this, right, is it’s like a, a kind of lovely dialogue between you and the administration. Uh, but it, it doesn’t always seem to, to translate into the actions. So for example, VCU has said, alright, great, we’re gonna eliminate our DEI office, make sure we’re in compliance with what the federal government wants. But they’re still suffering from funding cuts according to VPMs reporting. Currently, uh, almost $11 million in research grants at VCU have been cut, for example. Like, at what point do you see a greater responsibility to, to speak out about this, right? Or or to even do more like Congress has the power of the purse, right?

Rob Wittman:

Sure. So

Rich Meagher:

Are you able to do more here to restore this funding, to bring this, this impact more directly back to, to VCU?

Rob Wittman:

Well, Rich, I do have the opportunity for that impact as the appropriations process begins to play itself out. You know, I’ll have the opportunity to talk to the appropriators about what they do in putting money into these different areas and making sure that we can emphasize these areas of research and how it is important that the nation invest in those areas. Research understanding too, that people wanna make sure that there is efficiency in the dollars that we spend. Everybody should want that. I wanna make sure those dollars are most efficiently and effectively spent. And I think that you can do both. I think you can, you can communicate, you know, what are the expectations about how these dollars to be used to make sure there’s accountability and transparency, but also to make sure that we are making the investments in the right areas to assure that we have good science going on, that that helps our nation. So yes, we will have an impact, and I’m gonna be very vocal with our appropriators as to the decisions they make and how they appropriate dollars in these areas.

Rich Meagher:

So that’s a, a, a, a good response to this idea about institutional funding, right? But it’s not just the institutions that are affected, it’s the individuals, particularly the students on campus.

Rob Wittman:

Yes.

Rich Meagher:

Uh, we’re seeing a, a wave of revocations of student visas, uh, across the country. But, but here in Virginia, our reporters, uh, have identified at least three dozen students in Virginia who were here on, you know, legal visas. And those visas have been revoked. It’s been sudden. It seems to ignore due process. There’s this fear among students that were already finding, they don’t trust the government’s doing the right thing. Is this heading down a dangerous path, or, or do you think these visa revocations are, are justified?

Rob Wittman:

Well, I know the administration is focused on making sure that we are having good immigration policy and making sure that the current laws are being applied. So what I’ve done is when these cases come up, is to look into these cases, communicate with the Department of Homeland Security to make sure they’re considering everything in their revocation of these, of these visas. Now, I wanna make sure too, that everybody has due process. That’s part of what, you know, makes this nation great. It’s that element of due process. So when these things come up, uh, you know, I wanna make sure they understand the decisions that are being made, how they’re making them, and then obviously the impact that it has on, on those individuals.

Rich Meagher:

Right? But the due process doesn’t seem to be happening, at least according to our reporting that we’ve seen. Like it’s just students wake up one day and their visa is no longer, uh, active, they’re asked to leave the country immediately without much of a hearing or any kind of, uh, of process. Um, is that kind of, of revocation justified, or do we need to slow down this process?

Rob Wittman:

My effort right now is to understand, you know, what, what’s the framework that the administration is using in making these decisions to again, assure that there is, is indeed due process. I’m doing my due diligence now to make sure I understand all of that and look at how these cases are being adjudicated.

Rich Meagher:

Should students who are currently in Virginia International students fear that their visa might be revoked if they speak out about something that Trump administration doesn’t like?

Rob Wittman:

I don’t think that they, that they should be afraid or fear anything. You know, our, our nation is, is, uh, the greatest nation on earth. And I believe that, you know, there’s a reason why those students come here. They come here for great education, for a great educational opportunity. And, uh, if they’re doing everything in accordance with, uh, with university policies and the law, there’s nothing that they should worry about. Listen, we, we, we want those international students here. We want them to be here at our universities. Uh, we want them to learn here and take back the things that they’ve learned here in the United States back to their home countries.

Rich Meagher:

Right? But are they likely to come if they are worried that they’re gonna get deported without warning or with, with, just because they were speaking up on campus?

Rob Wittman:

Listen, I, I think if they receive a student visa to come here, I don’t think that they should be worried about anything.

Rich Meagher:

Okay. Now, the, the, the letters you wrote, right? . VCUs teacher program, the, the research funding. It’s not the only time you’ve spoken up about what the administration is doing, right? You’ve spoken up a, a about dismantling the Federal Department of Education. You thought that was a, a, a little bit too much more recently. You said you would withhold your vote for the budget if, if Medicaid was cut. Are, are there any concerns that you have about the administration, uh, particularly President Trump seeing this kind of like, pushback as, as disloyalty, you know, Trump seems to value personal loyalty. He doesn’t seem to, uh, like criticism very much. Are you, are you worried that this is gonna put you in Trump’s cross airs?

Rob Wittman:

Uh, no. Listen, uh, president Trump, I think is very much, uh, is, is a, a student of listening. He likes to listen to people. I’ve, I’ve, uh, engaged with him. He’s, he’s a very engaging individual. I think he wants to hear people’s thoughts and ideas and feedback on things, and has been very willing to hear that. And, you know, every time that I make a comment on this, rich, I wanna emphasize this is always constructive, uh, comment. It’s not about, Hey, this is what we, uh, think is a challenge or, or, or a problem. But it’s also about what are the solutions, or maybe how can we change the policy in this, in, in a little ways to make sure that everybody can achieve what, what we want to achieve. I mean, that’s, that’s part of the legislating process. It’s part of the dynamic too, between the executive branch and the legislative branch. That’s exactly how it should occur. So having these conversations, I think are, are all good. They’re all about being constructive. They’re all about getting us to a place where we get the largest amount of agreement on things and making sure that we understand, you know, what the impacts of these decisions are. And I, I think the president’s been very, very open to that.

Rich Meagher:

Now, you, you and your, your fellow Virginia representative, Jen Kiggins, she also signed onto that letter in opposition to cuts to Medicaid. Uh, Democrats have targeted both of your districts for next year’s midterm election. Is, is the context of a possible tough race, uh, in a district next year, putting pressure on you to try to find a middle ground here between what the Trump administration is doing and what maybe some of his opponents are critics are concerned about?

Rob Wittman:

Oh, rich, I’ve always been about good public policy throughout my entire career, whether it’s in local government and where I spent, uh, 20 years in town council, the Board of Supervisors to the Virginia General Assembly. You know, I’ve always been solutions oriented about making sure we’re the right thing, listening to everybody out there, taking their thoughts and ideas, and coming up with a good path forward in representing the constituents of the first district. So I don’t think it’s any different now. Uh, the other side, choosing to to, to target me doesn’t change how I look at that in my obligation to serve people. You know, my obligation is to listen, uh, to come up with, uh, the ideas that come from my constituents, which are the best ideas. I, I believe not the ideas that come from Washington, but come from my constituents, and then push those forward, push those forward through the legislative process.

I’ve got a bill in that would allow 5 29 savings accounts to be used, uh, for things other than just a two or four year degree to be used for post-secondary education, especially in the career technical education area. Because 60% of the new jobs in the future will not require a four year degree. Uh, but it will require post-secondary education. So those are some of the things that I work in, and I have found that there is quite a bit of support from the administration on those things. So again, my nature is to go find those places where we have that agreement and really push, push the issue forward.

Rich Meagher:

Rob Whitman represents Virginia’s first district in the US House of Representatives. Congressman, thanks so much for joining

Rob Wittman:

Rich. Thank you.

Rich Meagher:

Coming up a local program that helps women achieve their own educational goals. We’ll talk to WomenRise when we come back on RVAs Got issues. This episode, we’re shining our community spotlight on WomenRise, the program that helps single mothers with scholarships to pay for childcare and a lot more. The program is run by the United Way of Greater Richmond and Petersburg. Joining me from the program is Emily Watkins, director of Community Impact for the United Way and Program participant Quiara Jones. Kiara. Emily, welcome. Thank you.

Emily Watkins:

Thank you so much for having us.

Rich Meagher:

So Emily, why do we need a program like WomenRise?

Emily Watkins:

There’s so many households around our region, um, in the United Way service area, it’s around 40% cannot meet the essentials for their family just based off of their income and the assets that they have. But if you look at single mother household, it’s 81%. And so to really help women rise, we’re looking at increasing degree attainment and getting more women on the path towards family sustaining employment. And one of the biggest costs is childcare. So in City of Richmond, the average of what a family should budget for one child is about $1,200 a month. So that’s a second mortgage. Really a huge barrier. Yeah. We have a tool on our website, and you can literally look at what a household can expect to pay based off of their family makeup in childcare in housing. And you can see that the math does not work. It’s not financial management. It, there’s no way to make these numbers add together in a way. And so that means you forego the preventative medicine, you, um, have to move again when the rent goes up or that type of thing.

Rich Meagher:

So Quiara, Emily does a nice job here of like, kinda laying out the big picture.

Quiara Jones:

Absolutely.

Rich Meagher:

You’re living this life absolutely right. Of trying to, to make ends meet. So what was it like, particularly before you got involved in the WomenRise Program?

Quiara Jones:

I had like an on and off, again, relationship with school because like Emily mentioned, childcare is extremely high. Of course, like I have my parents who are a great support system, but they’re older and they have their own lives. So being introduced to the program has been a life saver. Um, I really was introduced to the program, um, when I was attending, um, bright Point College was, which was, uh, the community college. I was going for my associate’s degree. And one of my professors, I just so happened to like check my email, but I think I had graduated already, <laugh>, and they sent an email, like, um, check this out. And I looked and I was like, what? Wow. Help with childcare. Like of course I was going at the time to transfer to Virginia Union to obtain my bachelor’s. Yeah. And I was like, wow. Like, I, I don’t even think I had maybe like two weeks-ish to like, apply, but I, I jumped right on it.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. And so you were working beforehand?

Quiara Jones:

I was

Rich Meagher:

Are you working while you’re trying to Go through school?

Quiara Jones:

Yeah. Working children. Um, at the time they were both, like in elementary school, I worked part-time, I worked full-time and it’s like, it still wasn’t enough. Um, I had good jobs. I was a tax preparer. I started working at a, a mental health facility. And while, you know, I felt like I was supporting people and like helping meet their needs, I felt like, Hey, I’m the helper that’s not getting the help. Initially my plan right outta high school was, I’m gonna go, I was so set to go to North Carolina a and t honestly, too. I wanted to do forensic science, but then I had my daughter and I was like, wait a minute, <laugh>, I have to readjust. I have to grow up a little bit quicker than I maybe had planned. And so some of those barriers were challenging to like, go right into school.

Rich Meagher:

And so what’s it like, like when you say the program, like it’s not just they cut you a check every year and say good luck. Right. What, how do you get involved in the program? What Happens?

Quiara Jones:

So we are linked with our own individual like support person. She checks in on me weekly, uh, throughout the semester. There’s a ton of different, like, trainings that are offered and too, we get to connect with other women. So I have met, um, some other women who are obtaining a degrees that are very similar or have similar stories to myself that I can relate to. It’s like a, a community support across the board. Yeah, across the board.

Rich Meagher:

So Kiara, how has it been under the program? This is your third year. What do you think it’s been able you to Do?

Quiara Jones:

It’s relieved a financial burden for sure. Sure. Instead of being worried about where my children are gonna go, like after school, um, I’ve been able to really like just focus in on my studies and be the best academically I could possibly be. Like, I have been on the Dean’s list, I was a presidential scholar. Right now I have a 4.3 GPA, so this is the best I’ve been.

Rich Meagher:

Yeah. And does that feel gratifying, like to get a chance to, to succeed like that, to show what you’re able to do?

Quiara Jones:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And it’s like, I hope that I show a, a positive example to my children. Although, like I had my oldest very early on, I am making an impact. I’m reaching heights and levels that I really didn’t think that I could.

Rich Meagher:

So we get this Women Rice program. Emily, uh, how many participants are in the program that you’re able to Serve?

Emily Watkins:

Um, right now we have 19.

Rich Meagher:

And so what do you look for in an applicant?

Emily Watkins:

It’s for single heads of households, women, um, and you have to live within our 13 localities that United Way serves, and you have to make less than $60,000 annually. And any daycare that we, um, pay has to be licensed or regulated. We’re looking for scholars who are likely to graduate. So they have the academic preparation, um, the life skills, the resilience, as well as a financial plan because we are covering childcare, which is a huge barrier, but there’s also paying for tuition. There’s paying for, you know, when your kid gets sick, there’s so much. So a strong financial plan that, uh, women rise can be a key part of, and then ultimately are on a path to family sustaining employment. So a degree that’s going to pay off in the end.

Rich Meagher:

This seems like, uh, intensive work. It seems like expensive work, right? Emily, how has the program changed as it’s grown over the last few Years?

Emily Watkins:

As we look at new scholars? One thing that we added was an emergency assistance fund. So just that we can, if something comes up, pay what those other barriers to graduation would be. So I’ve paid after someone got into a car accident and they couldn’t drive to school or drive their child to daycare. So things like that that come up, there’s just so many barriers. So childcare is the biggest one, the most predominant one, but there’s others. So I would say that that’s the biggest change, is that we’re looking at all of the barriers to degree attainment.

Rich Meagher:

Mm-hmm. Right. And so applications are open from April 15th through May 15th Of this year, right?

Emily Watkins:

Yes. Yes. And that will be for the 20 25, 20 26 academic year.

Rich Meagher:

Emily Watkins is the Director of Community Impact for United Way of Greater Richmond and Petersburg. Quiara Jones is a social work major at Virginia Union and a Woman Rise Scholar. Emily Kiara,

Emily Watkins:

Thank you.

Quiara Jones:

Thank you, thank you.

Rich Meagher:

That’s our show. Thanks to our guests, Rob Wittman, Quiara Jones, and Emily Watkins. Next up, we want to hear more from you. In upcoming episodes, we’ll be talking with members of the Richmond City Council and then Mayor Danny Aula. If you’ve got a question, call our listener voicemail line and leave a message at 8 0 4 5 6 0 8 1 0 8. That’s 8 0 4 5 6 0 8 1 0 8. You can also visit our website, RVAs issues.vpm.org. RVAs Got Issues is produced by Max Wasserman and Rachel Dwyer. Our script editor for this episode is also Rachel Dwyer. Audio mix by Steve Lack. Our intern is Cate McKenzie. Special thanks to Megan Pauley. Our theme music was composed by Alexander Hitchens. Meg Lindholm is our executive producer. Steve Humble is VP’s Chief Content Officer. I’m your host, Rich Meagher. Thanks for listening.