RVA’s Got Baggage

Rich Meagher: Hey, RVA. Before we start this episode, I wanted to let you know that we want to hear from you later this season. We’ll have a conversation with Superintendent of Richmond Public Schools, Jason Kamras, do you have a question for him about city schools? Leave us a voicemail at 8 0 4 5 6 0 8 1 0 8.

That’s 8 0 4 5 6 oh. 8108. And stay tuned for future conversations with other city leaders too. Okay, now on with the show.

Rich Meagher: Welcome to RVAs Got Issues, the show that brings you the people and ideas that are reshaping Greater Richmond I’m your host, Rich Meagher. Our podcast took a month or two off and what a time for RVA Richmond saw a brand new mayor Danny Avula face an old problem. Specifically an aging water system that failed during a winter storm throwing the whole region into chaos

News archival: Well, it is something that has not happened in the city of Richmond in more than 20 years. An official warning from City Hall to residents telling them to boil their water.

Never have I lived anywhere where you couldn’t turn on a faucet and get some water or flush a toilet.

Rich Meagher: We watched this water crisis spread from Richmond to Henrico to Hanover. We saw it affect homes and hospitals and closed schools. We joined our neighbors in melting snow to fill our toilet tanks, or, in one case I heard, even pouring wine into our toilet. Through it all, we watched Mayor Avula try to ramp up both his problem solving efforts and his communication about those efforts in real time.

 Now, aging pipes is one thing, there’s sidewalks and roads, the state of our school system, the health of the James River, Richmond is full of issues. That’s what this podcast is about. So how did we get here? Where are we going? And what else is Mayor Danny Avula and his administration going to face over the next four years?

To find out, we’re talking with the University of Richmond’s Thad Williamson. He’s the co-author of a new book about the history of Richmond City government More than anyone, Thad knows how the mayor’s office works and the baggage it comes with. Welcome Thad

Thad Williamson: Thank you. Thanks for having me

Rich Meagher: you’re a scholar of politics and leadership, Thad, not engineering, so I know that this answer is going to be limited, but you know, you know Danny Avula, you’re on his transition team. What, what did you think? What was your general impression of his handling of this water crisis that happened in the first week or two of his administration?

Thad Williamson: obviously there are multiple inquiries underway, so I can’t really speak to specifics, but, I do think he campaigned on being sort of a hands on problem solver and, I think that is what he was that week in terms of, helping find out what he could and, Get the point where the reservoir would be rising again and just being engaged.

Obviously he’s not an engineer either, but, you know, making sure that the right things were happening to try to solve the issue. And then the other piece is, yeah, obviously the first couple of days were challenging. The whole week was challenging, but I do think that taking that role as a communicator, got, a lot of good feedback from residents and others about that part.

Rich Meagher: Yeah, and the impression I got from it too was that he was sort of learning the job in real time. You usually don’t get to watch the mayor sort of practice the stuff he’s preaching. It seems he got better at communication, he got a better handle on things as the week went on and you could kind of see it happen because he had to be out there in front of people during the week.

Thad Williamson: You know Communication is just it’s critical during a crisis and certainly, yeah, for, I think for many people, a renewed sense of A, the responsibility of leadership, but B, the vulnerability of all cities, and, and this time when like, government public services kind of under attack in many fronts.

It’s kind of a, sobering reminder of the importance of, trying to keep the stuff going and for breaks, trying to fix this as fast as you can.

Rich Meagher: You have been involved in local government, local politics for a long time, and so you’re the director of the mayor’s transition team. You now have a role in the administration. What does the transition team do? Like, what have you been trying to do over the last few months to try and get this administration ready?

Thad Williamson: this is not a federal transition where there’s like laws and procedures that guide the process. According to the charter, hopefully this would never happen, but theoretically, a mayoral candidate could get elected, you know, go on an RV vacation for two months and show up January one and say, Hey, I’m here, you know, and obviously we’re not trying to do that.

So there, yeah. Numerous, uh, policy commitments that he made, in the campaign.

and then we had, You know, this transition team of, uh, close to 40 people that we grouped into various topics and we basically gave them like little assignments, which was, okay, here’s this thing that’s been said during the campaign, help us think through, you know, the, when, the, where, the, who, how that And in some cases it’s like, okay, here’s a question marker. What are your best ideas on this?

And so what’s going on now, and it’s, it’s going to continue to probably continue for a while is turning as many of those things as makes sense into actual action steps.

Rich Meagher: And so are there some like new initiatives that we can look for coming out of this transition? Like I’ve been hearing a lot of buzz about the attention that you all paid to like arts and culture, for example. Like that, that seemed to be like a carve out in the transition team that maybe isn’t as reflected in government right now.

Thad Williamson: you know the the seven clear priorities are there on the mayor’s website and History and arts and culture piece is is the last one and I think you know It falls a little bit outside the normal ambit of government operations and government operations is number one, Sort of improving City Hall’s organization and then housing is like right behind it.

But but on that piece, you know, I do think city has made just a ton of progress reshaping its own identity  but there is like this next stage about how do we proactively Tell our story is as one as we are a city that represents the cutting edge of inclusive, multiracial democracy, and we know from any kind of look at our history, how. Checkered painful at times traumatic that has been rarely straightforward. But, but going to 2026 and you got 250 years after 1776, I think it’d be great if the city projects a different narrative.

Rich Meagher: Which, brings us to the book you’ve coauthored, right? The Making of 21st Century Richmond with two of your colleagues at the University of Richmond, Julene Hader and Amy Howard. Uh, you talk, of course, about the long shadow of Jim Crow, but you also focus on a specific time period, right? 1988 to 2016. Why that period in particular? Why did you think that was important to tell that story?

Thad Williamson: To even tell the story of the transition to so called strong mayor government.

You have to understand the runway and it was a long runway and in these conversations about structural change and the city is not in a good place and the government isn’t quite organized the right way. That was already happening.

This conversation already happening in the late 80s,

Rich Meagher: And so just as a reminder to our listeners, right? That the idea of a separately elected mayor is relatively new in Richmond. You tell the story about how that came about. and what? What was the vision, right? So the advocates for this were really saying that this is going to make for more effective government. Was that really the selling point for it? Was it also about representation? Like, what was the, the kind of pitch made to Richmond voters about why we needed this change in government?

Thad Williamson: It came from a couple different angles. Certainly there are people, concerned with government deficiencies and cleaning up government. but there’s also, there was a concern about like, because there was no elected mayor, there was no one who’s actually had to run a citywide agenda and think about the city as a whole and the city manager, would in practice have to serve manage nine so called many mayors, each of whom we thought that that their idea was the best.

Rich Meagher: All the city council members, right?

Thad Williamson: So, so there’s, there’s the system had become unwieldy. And also, I think some of it has to do with, you know, for whatever reason, there weren’t clear council blocks operating as groups that had clear policy priorities that they all run on together so they could say, hey, we, we ran, we won, now let’s do it.

That had kind of, faded in its effectiveness over this time period.

Rich Meagher: And so a lot of the book, uh, related to this, the electoral structure, but it’s also more of the general politics of Richmond, right?

A lot of the book talks about the racial dynamics of the city, right? Particularly the relationship of race to economic development. like how does the way that race has worked and works in RVA lead to the city that we have now? The role of the white business class. You talk a little bit in the book about how it was almost ironic that the story you folks tell is the story of of black leaders, ironically, sort of making the city more welcoming to white professionals. How does that shake out and lead us to where we are today?

Thad Williamson: On the one hand, it’s like many political leaders have sort of had the analysis that like Richmond for a long time was a declining city. You needed something dramatic to try to turn it around. So the, the appeal of a new investment project was hard to resist.

So the classic one being the six street marketplace, you know, in the mid eighties which so many people were like, you know, really excited about when it happened

News archival: Thousands line Broad Street to be a part of the 6th Street Marketplace celebration.

 This is wonderful, a beautiful day, and this is just the beginning of downtown revitalization.

Thad Williamson: and then it kind of. You know, went kaput over the next decade and I think what we found, you know, so far is that, um, even a seemingly formidable alliance from between the mayor and certain members of council, often the black members and prominent white business leaders. That coalition doesn’t win.

I do think that there is a lasting distrust of government that runs super deep in Richmond, it’s like people expect the city to fail and that becomes a challenge to overcome. It also means the city doesn’t always get credit for the things it should.

Rich Meagher: Where does this leave a Danny Avula administration, sort of bringing it back up today, you know, based on this history, based on these sort of structural issues? These racial and economic dynamics, where do we end up?

Thad Williamson: yeah, I think he and the people he surround himself with are all, deeply committed to, the racial and economic equity goals that previous political leaders have also articulated.

I think the, the piece that there’s a public demand for is for, Continued improvement in the organization and to include looking at all the vulnerabilities and, to building City Hall into an organization that the residents, respect and trust. I do think that there are some things that, Already are going the right direction and just the public may not understand like it’s kind of a big deal that the city is now part of the Virginia retirement system because now the city can attract a different caliber of person for many job categories.

People wouldn’t ever consider the city, but that will take years for that to fully, you know, play itself out as a benefit. Um, but I’ve been kind of using the metaphor of like, you know, to really get functional equity, you have to have the vision. And I think we have plenty of the vision, but the second leg is you have to have the capacity to deliver.

Rich Meagher: we’d be remiss if we didn’t ask about the broader political context that Mayor Avula is operating in that the city’s operating in. Right. The new directives coming daily from the Trump administration. Real concerns about how this is gonna affect local politics, local governance here in RVA.

What? Is Mayor Avula’s strategy going to be in dealing with this uncontrollable, really, environment with D. C. coming to Richmond?

Thad Williamson: For now, I think the best thing I could say is the strategy is going to be to listen to the community, be in constant dialogue with the federal representatives and with the council representatives and sort of just judge what is the wisest, most prudent thing to do to protect the city’s residents.

But I think in terms of the values are clear, you know, and they’re out there. There’s broad daylight. This is what we stand for. And, um, To the extent people need to hear that, I’m sure he’ll be happy to say that again, but, but it is like an unprecedented situation, and so I think he will want to be, wise, prudent, and act with others.

Rich Meagher: So you are now serving in a role with the Avula administration. Um, this is the third mayoral administration you’re serving a role in. Um, how do our listeners play a role, right? Or at least communicate their needs, what they care about to the administration?

Thad Williamson: I always urge people that it’s like, try to get the surface story and it goes back to one of the reasons I think my co authors and I wanted to publish the book is, Richmond has serious problems, like serious problems that are not easily solved.

And I think it’s easy for an outsider or a new person or take a superficial look and say, look at his poverty, look at his inequality, look at his apparent dysfunction. Let me go down and yell at the people who are supposedly in charge of this because it’s their fault. And

the large majority of cases, the people in those positions were ordinary people who entered those roles because they saw the same thing you did or some version of it or something in their particular neighborhood that they wanted to address.

You know, um, and go down the line that there’s an issue for everyone on council that motivated them. That’s a good issue. You know, a praiseworthy thing. And so taking that deeper look that like the city of Richmond is structurally disadvantaged in lots of ways. Um, you know, from the, the limited ability to annex land that the large part of the land that this public that’s not taxable to the conservation of poverty, you know, the condition of the school buildings, all, all these things that, you know, just make it very, very difficult, A to manage and B come up with a coherent, pathway for change.

So, before you go on blast, try to go deeper.

Rich Meagher: Thad Williamson is Professor of Leadership Studies and Philosophy, Politics, Economics and Law at the University of Richmond.

He’s a co author of the new book from the University of North Carolina Press, The Making of 21st Century Richmond. Thanks, Thad.

Thad Williamson: Thank you.

Rich Meagher: Coming up, our community spotlight when we come back on RVA’s Guide Issues.

Rich: For this episode, we’re shining our Community Spotlight on an organization called Community 50 50.

It’s a non profit that does a little bit of everything, food and education, mental health services, And more for Richmonders in need. And here to talk with us about it is the organization’s founder, Zenobia Bay.

Zenobia: you, thank you. How y’all doing? Thank you for having me.

Rich: Right. Welcome Z Bay. You go by Z Bay, right?

Zenobia: I tell people my name is Zenobia Bay, but Z, Z Bay the poet, depending on what day you catch me on, that’s, that’s how we moving.

Rich: you mentioned Z Bay, the poet. I know the arts are really important to you. Do you get a chance to write and read poetry at all these days?

Zenobia: so my genre is more spoken word hip hop and, uh, poetry but I’m doing a lot of writing because I’m actually in the middle of writing, uh, my second album, the Awakening Vulnerable Season. So, uh, it just kind of depends on, you know, what I’m feeling.

Rich: now, you’re non-profit. Community 50 50 Its been around now for well 15 years

Zenobia: 15 years, yes, 2009

Rich: so why 50 50? What does that mean?

Zenobia: So 50 was actually my basketball number. And so my concept was if I get 50 percent the coach get 50 percent players, all factors involved in the outcome should be successful. We should all win. And so I just took that same concept into community.

Rich: how did this nonprofit group thing get started? Like what was your first step to get this organization off the ground?

Zenobia: Back in 2008 I was working at a group home for a boys and girls youth group home. And I just seen where if food, clothing, shelter, all these basic things, if somebody don’t have those, Then it’s hard to get some type of footing or some type of grounding on, on, on life. And so, um, started in 2009, a group of people that worked in a group home with me, and we just started doing cleanups and, uh, feedings.

Then I created a hip hop critical thinking workshop, because I seen a need where a lot of youth And not just youth, but you know, adults community were influenced by the music that they were hearing

 but sometimes it was influencing, you know, minds that weren’t ready at that time to receive. So we just felt the need to create something to help guide.

Rich: So community 50 50 has these like three pillars.

Zenobia: Yes.

Rich Meagher: So I think it’s, is it mental health education and community?

Zenobia: Yes.

Rich Meagher: Like how does that all come together for you?

what’s the bottom line? Like, what are you trying to do in the community?

So even with mental health, if somebody’s mental health or mental state isn’t right, you know, always feeling depressed. Always feeling not worthy. You know, that’s not gonna, be a good quality of life, so let’s start with the mental health with resources needed around that. Now education, a lot of people you know, we hear now people talk about mental health And a lot of different words, but people are not educated on it. So having different seminars, different spaces where people can get education or have space to ask questions about certain topics, not just mental health, but you know, that’s one of our biggest things.

And then, um, uh, community, you know, just whatever resources that’s needed in community, whether it’s food, clothing, Access to healthcare, different things that may be needed for, have an overall quality of life. all those three pillars come together with, uh, the core programs with lyrics and beats. The feeding program, Third Sunday Feeding, and then the, uh, Community Clothing Closet and Wrap Around resources.

Rich: you work mostly with volunteers, right?

Zenobia: Correct, community partners.

Rich Meagher: Community partners to these other organizations. Yeah. But, particularly just your group, right? How do you accomplish so much with so few resources?

Zenobia: Community 5050 is based upon a lot of volunteers. And some of those volunteers have their own businesses as well. So that’s where the collaboration come in at. Um, our model is nobody works for Community 5050. Um, I’m the only one that works for.

And so just pretty much having that model and that insight allows me to just continue to stay on track and build an infrastructure.

Rich: so some of your programs are specifically tailored, right? The, um, Beats, Lyrics and Beats. So, what, what’s that program and where did that come from?

Zenobia: So, Lyrics and Beats is, uh, it came from the hip hop critical thinking workshop. And what that did was allow people to have space to understand and get educated on what the five elements of hip hop was from the five elements of hip hop.

Now we broke it down to see how that can translate to help everyday life, whether it’s building skills, building relationships. Uh, understanding the history of and where it came from, community.

Rich Meagher: What’s one of the principles? If you don’t mind sharing.

Zenobia: Oh yeah, nah, I can say all five, uh, DJing, uh, MCing, graffiti, b boying, and knowledge.But, sometimes that was a little bit too broad, and so we tailored it, and one of the activities we took the song, put it on a big screen, took the sound away, and actually broke down the words.

And now it’s like, okay, the beat is away, what am I actually saying? Now it’s repetitive, and you realize, I’m actually probably doing some of these things or, you know, affecting my mood.

 And that’s what makes us unique because it’s a foundation, but it’s not just a cookie cutter program.

Rich: So it sounds like, I mean, this is really exciting, right? You have this kind of like curriculum.

With that you can be tailored to a particular audience. What is their need? Do they need to think about violence? Do they need to think about community? Do they need to think about, you know, going to school?

Whatever it is. Right. You can bring that to them. And I, and I take it with the idea like hip hop in a language that, you know, young kids can, can understand right? That they’re already listening to Does that sound right?

Zenobia: Exactly. So if you can’t connect with your audience you lost and so that was very big for us to be able to connect and that’s one of the reasons why we partner with a lot of people because again, I Can’t give a message like you can give your message and vice versa And so now we create a space where we’re both in the space and we’re both giving a message Think about how powerful that is.

Rich: So speaking of working with other people, right, you have some other community wide programs. The Sunday feeding that I’m really interested in,

So take me to a Sunday feeding, like where am I and what’s happening if I’m going to one of these things?

Zenobia: Okay. So, um, Jackson Ward and Mosby community in Richmond, Virginia. Um, a lot of these communities are low income, underserved. And so now it’s a Sunday around one o’clock. Myself, Community 5050 volunteers and some other community partners, and then just individuals in the community that may have donated, And we have a menu of, uh, rotisserie chicken, salad, pineapples, rolls. juice and maybe water

And so We’re located right on the resident’s yard, and that idea model came from one of our great, uh, elders that passed away, Sister Lily Estes. And she was a community strategist, and one of the things that she taught, uh, myself and a lot of individuals was the importance of inclusion.

If you include the community and you include the individuals that lives there, Now you’re definitely meeting the needs, but I know for myself, what I learned is you beat a lot of red tape, right? Cause you can’t, how are you going to tell us we can’t come on Ms. Mary’s porch or Ms. Mary, or they said we can come.

And so what we do is we intentionally identify members in the community that are community, like a lot of people look up and they say, how did you get in these places? You know what I mean? But then too, a lot of people, um, going back to relationships, a lot of people don’t know I’m born and raised in Richmond. So a lot of these relationships were already built.

Rich: Now, you’ve got big plans, right? You’ve already expanded to Charlottesville, right?

Zenobia: Charlotte, North Carolina.

Rich Meagher: Oh, to Charlotte, North Carolina.

Okay. So, um, what’s going on in North Carolina?

Zenobia: So, we have a clothing closet here in Richmond, and one of our youth coordinators is in, uh, Charlotte now.

And so, we opened a storage down there, and we’re going to actually not do a full clothing closet. We’re going to focus on coats and sneakers.

Rich: Okay, so that already sounds like you’re kind of drawing a little line on the map, right, to a couple of places. But Like, do you see Community 50 50 in say like 5 years or 10 years.

Zenobia: Well, we’re gonna go to the 10. Uh, I definitely see us having um, some programs in Pittsburgh, uh, Charlotte, Virginia Beach, and we’re focusing a lot on Retreats because a lot of our mental health and wellness is wrapped around understanding importance of how your environment can be a Factor

some young person could leave the city of Richmond, maybe go to, uh, uh, Virginia Beach, then their next trip is Charlotte, and then their next trip is to get on a plane and they’re going out to Colorado.

 And then possibly, you know, having some type of partnerships overseas somewhere. You know, so now we can teach these young individuals, and families, adults too, about, uh, how the process of getting a passport, getting on a plane, going to another country, experiencing those things, if you want to experience it. And so now, like I said, you know, we’re just about opening up doors. to individuals because I know what that did for me,

Rich: So what can our listeners do to help?

Zenobia: they can follow us on our website. it’s www. community5050. org. we’re always looking for volunteers. We’re always looking for sponsors. We’re always looking for various, uh, collaborative partners, uh, space to do different, events, But, um, just different space because we feel like having a brick and mortar keeps us here. So now you have to come to us. And I don’t think anything’s wrong with that. I think maybe in the 10 year plan we will have a brick and mortar.

But that model will still be in place to where we’re popping up at the schools. Uh, we’re at different community centers. We’re going into different communities.

Rich: You’re going to where the need is

Zenobia: Exactly. Exactly. And when we talk about accessibility, a lot of people may can’t get to us. so now just having more resources around our programs where now we can get to the individuals and the families and the communities with less red tape.

You want to go back that red tape. But yeah, less red tape,

Rich: Zenobia Bay is the founder of Community 5050. Thanks Zenobia.

Zenobia: Thank you. Appreciate you and your time.

Rich Meagher: That’s our show. Thanks to our guests, Thad Williamson. and Zenobia Bay. Find out more about our show and tell us about your issues at our website, rvasgotissues.vpm.org. Remember to tell your friends about us, share a social media post, or leave a review on your favorite podcasting platform.

RVA’s Got Issues is produced by Max Wasserman and Rachel Dwyer and edited by Steve Lack. Our intern is Cate McKenzie. Our theme music was composed by Alexander Hitchens, Meg Lindholm is our executive producer, Steve Humble is VPM’s chief content officer. I’m your host, Rich Meagher. Thanks for listening.