En Pointe: Stepping Into Big Shoes

[CUE NUTCRACKER – Dance of the sugar plum fairy]

RICH: Welcome to RVA’s Got Issues, a podcast about politics and public affairs in and around Richmond, Virginia. I’m your host, Rich Marr. On this episode, RVA’s Got Issues with dancing. No, not like Footloose. Instead, we’ll talk to the incoming and outgoing artistic directors of one of the most important cultural institutions in the region, the Richmond Ballet. Then, RVA’s got questions about litter. Whatever happened to anti litter campaigns? Finally, for our community spotlight, we’ll talk with Alice Minium, the founder of Open Oversight Virginia. She provides the answer to the question, Who’s watching the Watchmen in RVA? RVA? All that coming up on RVA’s Got Issues.

 

RICH: On this episode, RVA’s Got Issues with dancing. The Richmond Ballet has been a cornerstone of the region’s art scene since Stoner Winslet helped establish it back in 1984. Now she’s handing off the reins to her lieutenant, Ma Kang, who just took over as artistic director this summer. We’re excited to have them both here in the studio. Stoner, Ma, welcome.

Thank you so much.

us.

Stoner, let’s start with you and your connection to the Richmond Ballet. What do you think the Richmond Ballet means to the city of Richmond and, and really to the region as a whole? It’s a big question. I know Richmond

is a big question. Um, actually, the Richmond Ballet was founded in 1957, which is before I was born, and was a student company until 1975 when they founded the school, the Richmond Ballet.

And that was the big turning point, I think, for the community when patrons like Betsy Gale and Ruth Hill, um, Got a not for profit dance training institution in Richmond and their goal was that young Richmond kids would not have to leave Richmond to go to New York or North Carolina School of the Arts to be trained to a professional level And out of that training and the expertise of the young dancers came the professional company. and I happened in five years into their mission in 1980 And nine years into the mission in 1984, their dreams were coming true and the kids were being professionally trained.

And we’re getting jobs all over the world and Europe and Houston Ballet, ABT2, and um, together we decided to start a professional company. So I really think It all comes from the school and the desire to have professional ballet training here. And out of that training and the expertise of the young dancers came the professional company.

the professional company is, uh, you know, a world class ballet, right? It’s, it’s not just, uh, A little rinky dink operation, right?

It does seem to have a very good reputation.

Well, thank you. Yes, it started in 1984 with 12 dancers with 20 week contracts for 200 a week. And, um, I had been the first full time employee of the company. The annual budget was 164, 000.

And now we’re the State Ballet of Virginia, and we’ve, um, performed in New York five times. We’ve performed in Chicago, all around this country. We’ve performed in London, we’ve performed in China, and Beijing, and Shanghai, and other cities, and um, we like to think we’re one of the best ambassadors for Virginia out there, so that’s a pretty big

[ CUE NUTCRACKER, March dance of the reeds, PLAY IN CLEAR FOR 3-4 SEC, FADE OUT]

but it’s still like what I especially like is that community connection is still there. I mean, every winter we’re planning our calendar around which Nutcracker show are we going to see because my kids friends are in those performances, right? It’s still that connection to the community is there even at the same time.

You’ve got that world class performance structure.

[ CUE IN CLEAR FOR 1-2 SECONDS BEFORE FADING OUT BEFORE STONER’S RESPONSE]

Absolutely. We still have the School of Richmond Ballet and many of the dancers in the professional company are alums of the School of Richmond Ballet, but others are auditioned worldwide and we have a guy from Tajikistan, a woman from New Zealand. So we, we really accumulate the best dancers we can and one of the things that I’m very most proud of that I’ve done in my tenure here is 10 years into the profession, professional company.

Ten years into the professional company mission, I realized that I really wanted to give back to the community. And I started a program called Minds in Motion that is in fourth grade classrooms. And pre COVID, we were up at about 28 schools. Now we’re at 15 and we’re climbing back up, but every fourth grader in the school takes it and they all come together and do a culminating performance at the Dominion Energy Center.

And the subject of the performance is based on The SOLs from their grade, and it’s also allows us to cast a net and find eager and talented students that might not be able to train otherwise. And now we have a bridge program for those children to come into school, the Richmond Ballet. And we have, at the moment, one dancer who started in fourth grade at Mary Mumford Elementary who’s a professional dancer.

Ma’s in charge of hiring now, since he’s coming in as artistic director for next year, and he just promoted another Minds in Motion dancer from Studio Company into an apprentice. And that is a beautiful thing to see in the community.

So how has your vision for the ballet evolved over this time, you know, having been involved in it since the 1980s? You

when we look back at the original mission vision statements that the Richmond Ballet Board and I adopted in 1988,

1988, it’s

pretty much the same. And I think that’s part of our success, is consistency. Um, we have always wanted to awaken, uplift, and unite human spirits. It’s always been about something much bigger than any one person or any group of people.

Um, something much farther reaching. It’s always been inclusive. It’s always been about pursuit of excellence, teamwork, discipline, perseverance. A lot of these things, I think, seem to be out of style in our world right now, but they’re things that we think are really important, um, for the world. And as time’s gone on and we’ve had more resources, both human and financial, Uh, the mission and vision have manifested themselves in a little bit different ways and continuing ways.

And I’m just really excited to see how Ma, who embraces that same mission vision, which is one of the reasons I wanted him to come here, takes the reins and takes it to a new place.

place.

Yeah, that’s a good transition there, Ma. What kind of, I mean, obviously you’re going to have some continuity with the same kind of vision that Stoner’s talking about. How do you see the ballet changing and evolving to still have that same mission, but moving into a new, I guess, future? The

 

So many great momentums for the company, uh, going to the future, and I think we got a really great community here. And, um, I think going to the future that, um, I would love to see the thrive moment for the Minds in Motion. So going back to, you know, 28 schools and climbing up back, and also for our SRB to, um, You know, have a great international kind of like training system.

Hopefully have a little bit more of a summer exchange from international students and all that. And also we have built a, stronger, uh, faculty members and continue and bringing a lot of interest from worldwide and, uh, also for the company. So just little by little, I think people will receive the message, will receive this very clear vision that I’m trying to, um, you know, bring to the community. And, uh, I would love to build, you know, so many interesting and very diverse program here to the Richmond area.

So, yeah.

Ma, just in terms of your background, um, you grew up in China. Um, what was it that made you want to come to the United States? Uh, so certainly you were dancing with the, the, the national ballet in China, um, and probably could have stayed there and been very successful, but what brought you to the United States and, and, and what’s been different about your experience here as opposed to dancing in China?

in China?

I think, uh, this is, um, this is a really great question. And it’s a very good question. It’s a question that I had

when

I was 10 years old, um, when I learned that I’m really interested, um, being a dancer, that at that time I was very young and of course everything is, uh, very new to me. And when I was age 10 that I, when I auditioned and Beijing Dance Academy, I was pretty much selected for both program and they offered, I either can go to train.

as a Chinese classical dancer, or I could choose to train ballet and You know, in the 1988, at that time, ballet is like young snow in China. And, uh, everybody only knows Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty, and that’s it. And of course, and then when my, um, after I asked my dad, my dad’s like, no, no ballet for you. And you should do Chinese classical dance.

So yes. And I trained a Chinese classical dance. And of course I learned the great skills and also Chinese classical dance later on. that I find that there are so many elements are linked into contemporary movements and all that.

So

when I was age 17 to 18, of course, I’m a little bit more mature and I start to think about arts and future and my future as an artist.

And one thing I realized is that, you know, at that time, 1995, um, the artists in China does not have a freedom. To speak out and you have a very much limitation and you cannot create freely. If you are thinking about you like to paint a canvas for you only want to have five different colors on this painting.

But your resources will tell you that you only can do with the two colors.

in there.

So I know that there’s a lot of limitation there and I start to think that what can I do to fulfilling my dream as an artist? And then that’s where I decided, you know, coming to U. S. is a solution. It’s because U. S. is a land of freedom.

And I will be able to express my voices freely and loudly here. So, um, and then I got a really wonderful opportunity and I was hired and moved to U. S. and, uh, I have no regrets on that because now that I really, for the last 24, actually 25 years now, that I live in U. S. and become a citizen and I just, Really thinking that I made absolutely right choice to move to US that I could continue create as freely as I can.

So, and I was a principal dancer at the time. Um, Tulsa Ballet for a while, then started to become in transition into a choreographer, lesson choreographer. And so it’s kind of like a dream. I would love to see that if this sort of a, uh, dream that I, I had for myself, that it can be shared, can bring more opportunities to the kids like myself, you know, back then.

So that give them the tools and, uh, um, the energy and the passion that to help them to grow

so much, yeah.

the U

a, a, a wide ranging background, right? You were raised in China, um, you spent some time in Tulsa, which is probably just as foreign to Richmond as, as China might be, right? Uh, how do you bring these perspectives to the ballet? I

Yes,

I think, um, it comes down. I think I am very often to think about a one word is, um, um, dream. I think it’s a chasing the dream because, you know, there’s a lot of things in line.

As a young dancer, I often think that if I were one of the Minds in Motion students, you know, what I would do. So, I pretty much shared a very, uh, similar experience like, um, our, uh, dancers who actually currently dancing with the company and got promoted all the way from a fourth grade grader and all the way promoted to the company.

And I was born and raised in the southwest part of China in the late, um, 80s and then um, went to Beijing Dance Academy when I was 10 years old based on a scholarship. And, um, I was age 10 and left home and spent seven years of training of a classical Chinese dance. And then after that, I joined the National Ballet of China, danced there for four years, then moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma.

So, and I was a principal dancer at the time. Um, Tulsa Ballet for a while, then started to become in transition into a choreographer, lesson choreographer. And so it’s kind of like a dream. I would love to see that if this sort of a, uh, dream that I, I had for myself, that it can be shared, can bring more opportunities to the kids like myself, you know, back then.

So that give them the tools and, uh, um, the energy and the passion that to help them to grow.

and so how are your ideas reflected in the work that you’ve done and the work that’s going to be done, like the upcoming season? I know you’ve announced that and are, are working on, on building that. Um, like what kinds of of things are, are richmonders uh, gonna expect from, from the, the mock hung Richmond Ballet.

Yeah, we’ll have a very exciting upcoming season, um, 24 to 25 season.

And we start off, um, dancers will be back in August one, and we’ll be working with multiple different programs. And the highlight of next season that one of them is, um, um, Lumberina.

[ LAMBARENA ENTERS IN CLEAR FOR SEVERAL BEATS BEFORE PLAYING UNDERNEATH MA’s CLIP]

Actually, I’m very excited about this program that will be including a March 2025. Five. Uh, at a VMFA moving art series, and, um, it is a very unique program as a dancer myself back then in early 2000 that I had the opportunity to perform this work.

It’s a very unique work based on a classical ballet technique, but, um, kind of like choreographed the way they married together with, um, Western African dance together. And we had an African, um, dance consultant coming into the studio to train all the dancers for the African dance before even the ballet steps being taught.

[ MUSIC PLAYS IN CLEAR FOR 1-2 SECONDS]

So, um, that program, um, It’s really exciting. Also, I’m bringing one of my, um, uh, very exciting work. It’s called a Pentaptic. It’s moving five panels on stage, and it’s a collaboration with a live painter on stage with the dancers, and they will be doing a movement around a painting. At the same time, painter will be finish a painting in about 20 minutes every night.

[ MUSIC OUT]

So, um, Also in that program, I’m bringing, uh, first ever Christopher Wilden’s work. Um, Christopher Wilden is a world renowned choreographer and, um, uh, his work has been seen many different, uh, world leading companies before. So his work never been seen here. So I’m really excited. We’re able to get his work After Rain here included into that program.

And that’s just one of the production, of course. And then we have, of course, our very famous Nutcracker and Holiday Tradition, and also we’re going to have a Virginia premiere of Cinderella, of Ben Stevenson’s Cinderella. It’s the same choreographer as Dracula, which is, we have done in this past February.

Right. And,

so tell us a little bit about this collaboration with the VMFA, uh, Stoner. I imagine this has been in the works for quite some time. Um, so

happening?

what’s happening? Like we’re going to go see ballet at the VMFA.

It’s so fantastic. This is, talk about dreams. This has been a dream of mine for over 20 years.

Um, way back in the day, we performed, um, in the Leslie Cheek Theater at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts. Um, mostly as, with new works, the new work kind of festivals. But the stage there was quite small. It had been built for, um, Live theater, not live dance. And, um, we were also sharing it with the then Virginia Museum Theater, which then later became Theater Virginia.

As we all know, Theater Virginia no longer exists, and that beautiful theater has been sitting pretty much dark, except lectures for the museum.

I

I honestly didn’t know there was a theater in the VMFA, been there a million times but didn’t know it was there.

The, the physical plant theater you didn’t know was there, or you didn’t know there was a theater company?

A,

A theater at

You didn’t know it at all. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, there’s a beautiful theater in there named for Leslie Chit, Leslie Cheek who was an early director of the museum and

um,

At any rate, I’ve just been saying, is there any way, is there any way, is there any way that we could take the proscenium and just widen it a little bit?

And a ballet trustee, whose wife is also a big supporter of the museums, gave a very, very generous gift to start that off. And they have now completed a campaign to widen the proscenium. The stage so that it’s danceable and to renovate, I mean, upstairs in the tech booth right now, they’re floppy disks, you know, for the, for the light board.

So they’re renovating all of the equipment and they’re backstage and they’re doing all the seats over and it’s going to become, obviously our big shows will stay at the Dominion Energy Center, Nutcracker, Cinderella, that kind of thing. But our smaller shows are all moving over to the museum, which. Which we love because we are the two arts organizations, um, in Richmond that have the

the

statewide presence with being the State Ballet of Virginia.

And, um, it’s just going to be fantastic to be in there.

So this move to the VMFA, um, you said you’ve danced there before, right? And so the Richmond Ballet, I think people who just have a cursory knowledge of it, um, might not be aware that this is not the first move that the ballet has done, right? Where else have you been around the city?

Well, my job interview performance on April 21st of 1980, the company which was then Students with Guest Artists was performing at what was then known as the Mosque and now is the Altria Theater.

Then they renovated what was then known as the Lowe’s Movie Theater downtown and it became the Carpenter Theater and we moved over there. Then we had to move back to, by then I think it was called the Richmond’s Landmark, because they annexed Tallheimers and made the whole new complex down there, and we moved back and now it’s called the Dominion Energy Center, and it houses the Carpenter Theater, the Gottwald Theater, and Bob and Sally Mooney Hall.

So our big performances with orchestra have been back and forth between those two, but the names of those two keep changing, so it’s confusing. Our smaller performances were originally in those theaters but then I realized that we needed to take them into smaller venues with less seats so that we could continue to commission new work and not expect 3, 667 people in the case of the Altria or 1, 600 in the case of the Carpenter Theater to come.

So we were initially at Virginia Museum Theater and as I said the stage was too small and then the Jepson Theater opened at U of R. And we moved over there, and then when we moved from Lombardi Street to our building on Canal, we, um, opened up a studio theater in our own building. So since 2002, our smaller works have been right in our own building at 407 East Canal, which has been much fun.

But, um, it’s time to get them out of what’s really a rehearsal studio and into a proper theater, and that will happen in March of 2025.

there. Very exciting. Let’s talk about the transition here.

Stoner, why now? And why Ma?

Good questions. Um, I am the founding director of the professional company back from 1984. And um, I’m also a mother and I’m also the mother in a way of that ballet company. And I feel so blessed that the board and I, I’ve been hand in hand with this really wonderful Special, spectacular, moving, constructive, fabulous relationship for 44 years now.

And they told me that I couldn’t leave until I found somebody. And so we didn’t do your typical search and the board hires. So I’ve been keeping my eyes open for a long time. And um, I’ve hired a lot of commissioned 88 new ballets, um, since I’ve been at the Richmond Ballet. And one of the things I’d love to do is look for Um, choreographers out in the world that don’t have a chance to work and bring them in and let them do new works on the Richmond Ballet.

So I heard about Ma, and he was still a dancer at Tulsa Ballet, and that was back in 2009. And I brought him into the New Works Festival, and he did a sketch of a piece called Erste Walls, and it 10 minute sketch, and I liked it a lot, asked him to come back and make it into a 20 minute ballet, which he did.

And he’s now done 10. new ballets for us, including his last one, Opah. So over the course of that time, we got to know each other, and I felt like In many ways, we couldn’t be more different. I mean, I’m a girl from South Carolina and he’s a guy from Western China. But in many ways, we’re exactly alike because we share the joy of dance.

We share the belief in what dance can do for humanity and for communities. And we share the belief that the art is much bigger than ourselves.

a lot of people don’t realize that the artistic director of the ballet is the artist that makes the ballet. We don’t want Richmond Ballet to be the same under Ma. as it was under me because we’re different people and we’re different artists and it will look different.

It should look different. We should be excited about that and we should celebrate that. So I’ve chosen someone in the communities, chosen one whose art we are dying to see. And we know a little bit about it because we’ve been seeing it for a while, but we’re going to see it full blown in his artistic direction of the whole institution. And anyway, I just realized he was the one, and I asked him, and I was so scared. It’s like, I don’t know how guys do it to ask girls to marry them.

marry them.

It was really

It was very nerve wracking to ask him if he was interested, and he was over the moon interested, so that was good.

And um, he’s been here since COVID allowed his family to move. as Associate Artistic Director, and I had promised the board I would stay until we got to the Virginia Museum Theatre and complete that project, but I realized last summer that Ma was ready to do it. So the right time for me to step aside is when the right person is there to step in the role.

So the board named me Founding Artistic Director, and I’m going to consult next year and help Ma and help with the move. But he’s going to become Artistic Director on July 1, and It’s, it’s wonderful. How does

And so Ma, how does that feel being asked to step into this role?

role? I think, uh, my first reaction is definitely I got really big shoes to fill, I think. I think. It’s because, um, um, Sona has been really, uh, put all the energy, all the passion that she has and for nurturing this company for over 44 years.

And the company has incredible reputation, um, um, in the world. And many colleagues that have been, you know, in contact and everybody’s been saying to me that, you know, you’re so lucky that your enrichment and, uh, you know, taking the, you know, artistic directorship from Stoner. And I just think that, um, I’m very honored and very, very lucky person.

But at the same time, I got a lot of great ideas. I think that I’m going to push this organization and, um, just really, uh, continue to uplift our human spirits in our community. right now. I’m currently thinking about what I would like to build for the next 5 to 10 years, right? I’m thinking about the 3 words right now for the company’s log will be, um, bold, diverse, And elegant. We’re talking

up with our student spirit and, uh, and healthy music.

of the ballet

When we come back on RVA’s Got Issues.

I not take the mic, the mic? Yeah, just move the mic a little closer to you.

Yeah, just move it in like a little closer to you. Oh. This actually is very scary.

No,

very scary.

I’m glad I don’t have

I’m like, yes. Move it just like a little closer to your chair. Just slide it, yeah, perfect. Okay.

Oh,

I’m, I’m

like, stop.

I’m sorry. My daughter is the dancer.

How old is she?

She is

with

She does not. She’s, uh, with, uh, Releve RVA, a small studio on the South side.

Oh, okay, good. I didn’t know that one. That’s so great that there’s so many

Mm hmm.

hmm. Mm

Are

we all good, Max? Okay, thank you. This is RVA’s Got Issues. We’re back with Stoner Winslet, the outgoing artistic director of the Richmond Ballet and her successor, Ma Kang. Stoner, what’s at stake for the city and the region in this leadership transition? it’s certainly, uh, you know, you’re supportive of Ma, but this is an important institution.

It’s an important moment in the life of the institution, right?

Absolutely, um, but I am so grateful to this board of trustees and to Ma and to everyone involved. Many, many ballet companies, an artistic director just walks away.

There’s no one in the job for an interim year. They do an international search. They get the same 40 resumes and then they go through and they call through the resumes and they, you know, get three people and they bring them each in to teach a company class and talk to the board for a day. And then they.

Give them the job and it works sometimes, a lot of times it doesn’t work because there’s a culture in institutions and their values in the institutions and I knew Ma already since 2009 and the board members knew Ma, I mean we did a two week tour to China with Ma, um, and a lot of the board members went on that and I feel like sort of the secret to The success of Richmond Ballet has been what a consultant that we, we used and, and still adore, named Nella McDaniel, talked about was the three legged stool.

And, and the three legged stool is the strong stool, right? Not the two legged stool. And you have to have strong artists, strong administrators, and strong community supporters. And what I see coming around Ma, are the community supporters that have supported me. I see the administrators that have supported me coming around him.

I see some change in the universe, which always happens, especially post COVID. So he’s been able to choose some new people on the staff that I think will be really good. to and

will it

will it be seamless is but is any day ever seamless and anything I don’t think it could be any better because He’s been here for two and a half years on site I’m gonna be here halftime next year we had a board retreat to open the season this year and I And asked the board twice during the retreat if they would give Ma the same kind of love, support, affection that they had given me.

And the second time I asked it, one of the trustees raised her hand and said, Stoner has asked us this twice and no one has answered her. And I want to say, I will. Will you all join me? And they all were saying, we will, we will. And the board is completely behind him. And, uh, that’s a beautiful thing. What

from having worked with the ballet for so many years, what do you think is the biggest challenge for the ballet going forward?

Hmm.

I mean, I mean, it sounds like you’re, you’ve done a lot of planning. You’ve done a lot to sort of get your ducks in a row internally to try to make this as seamless as possible. But even forgetting the leadership transition, transition, sort of what’s the big challenge for, uh, arts institutions in the, in the region as, going forward. what do you think is the biggest challenge for the ballet going forward?

I think the biggest challenge for the ballet is, um, resource development. You know, when I started, I was the first full time employee. I don’t mind telling you they paid me 10, 000 a year. The budget was 164, 000. It was a pretty lean operation. Well, I’ve grown it over 44 years to 135 employees, an almost 7 million budget, but the programming has grown just as much, and it’s still a pretty lean operation.

Um,

We get so much, our donors love us, because we get so much out of every single dollar that we have, and I think we always will.

But,

It’s been like a founder startup entrepreneurial kind of organization, um, with people giving blood, sweat and tears instead of getting salary and that kind of thing. I think it’s time for the ballet to move to the established artistic institution that it is, and to gain the community support, the state support, the national support, um, to really Shore up the underpinnings of it and make it strong and make it possible for Ma to take it to the next level.

Do you

Ma, do you agree? Do you, do you see challenges like that on the horizon?

Absolutely, absolutely. I, I, I think one of the to do lists that I, we all have for this organization is Um, able to try to engage every possible donors that can support us because, you know, um, we as a human cannot live without arts. Just like, you know, my teacher used to tell me that, you know, the art is, is the food for the soul.

So how can you not have the food? on the table. So if people think about that way, they’re really going to pay attention, knowing that arts is how important that is, because especially when we are really right now walking slowly away from COVID and we’re dealing with a lot of challenges with mental and health and all that, it’s only the arts can change people.

So I think, um, this is something that I’m very passionate, you know, including. The programming, including how to invest energy to help the younger students to be able to have a very positive, positive experience to come to dance, you know, can chasing their dreams and to have a passionate donors that actually they can.

Pull every single dollars that they have to support the ballet. You know, then we’ll have the future together. Otherwise, yes, it will become a very, very challenging because we are, We have, we have to be very, very competitive for other organizations to be able to, you know, attract the beautiful dancers come to Richmond to dance for our community and to, you know, to, to hire very, very, Wonderful.

We’ll pay higher salaries to get promotions from within. So, um, yes, so this is going to be one of the big agendas that to do in the future. So

So Stoner, looking back on your illustrious career here at the Richmond Ballet, and, uh, what do you see as your legacy in Richmond? Again, super easy questions I keep asking you here, right?

Um, I know, even on the darkest days, that, um, my partnership with the community leaders here and the other artists and administrators has made a tremendous difference in this community.

I also know it’s made a big difference in the dance world. I’ve, I’ve seen three generations of artistic directors turn over in my, in my career just because I’ve been there. I started when I was two, you know, I was a child prodigy. And so I’ve seen, seen a lot of turnover. And I think that

with everything that’s

it’s always been a moment to me in humanity, but right this minute with everything that’s gone on in the world with COVID, um, the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd, the two wars, big wars that have started, um, in the last couple of years, um, Anything that can pull people together is critical.

And I’ve always felt that dance is one of those things that can pull people together because it’s a language of movement. You don’t have to speak, you know, English or French or Swahili or whatever. All you have to speak is, is from the heart when you see dancing. And I think seeing a good dancer makes you feel, Good about being alive because you have that human being that came into the world with just the little baby and then They instead of learning on a Stradivarius or using a paintbrush They use their instrument as their body like an athlete to train it But they don’t train it to beat someone else or to win they train it for human expression and it’s inspiring and I just think I know that the ballet means a lot more in Richmond than when I got here and a lot more around the state and around the country and I just hope that we all come together.

around dance as a unifier on the planet that we’re all human beings and that we really need to, you know, my ultimate goal I’ve not achieved which was basically peace on earth Um, that’s that’s a big one But um ma will have to keep trying to move towards that one because that’s In my opinion where we need to be we need to be together one.

What kind of listeners?

do to help as you move forward into this leadership role? What can the people listening to the podcast do to help?

Well, I think number one, they have to really have the interest to know who we are and what we do. And that’s a very simple thing to do. Is, you know, go to richmomballet. com and just, uh, or go to, um, Facebook or Instagram to just to check on us and what we do and what kind of program we’re offering, what kind of productions, what we do. And then next thing is please come to join us. Let’s dance together and come into our building and watch some rehearsal viewings and knowing behind the scenes.

scenes. So

Get

Your passion out from arts by little by little and in very engaging with us And so you’ll be be part of this arts organization and you’ll be part of this company And we can move forward together.

So yes support is absolutely so incredibly important And we’re hoping in the future were able to build a very very strong endowment So that I were able to do beautiful things together

[ CUE LAMBARENA, CARRIES THROUGH OUTRO OF SEGMENT AND IN THE CLEAR BEFORE FADING UNDER START OF LITTER Q]

Stoner Winslet is the outgoing Artistic Director of the Richmond Ballet. Ma Kang is our new Artistic Director.

Thanks to you both

LITTER

 All right, so this is Episode 7, RVA’s Got Questions, take one.

On

 On each episode of RVA’s Got Issues, we’ll answer a question from listeners like you. Something you want or need to know about your government or community. On this episode, RVA’s Got Questions about litter. Our producer, Amber Coles, is back with a question from a listener. Hi Amber.

Rich.

So Amber, what you got?

We have an anonymous listener question and they ask, I would like to know why litter seems to be in abundance, especially on the on and off ramps leading to a major road. Also, are people lazier about tossing trash out their car windows? What has happened to anti litter campaigns?  question

it’s a good don’t notice litter that much, uh, until this question was asked, and now it seems like I see a lot of it. Amber, do you know anybody who litters?

Unfortunately, I did know a person who littered my grandma who passed last year was an avid like lottery ticket scratcher I will say and when she didn’t win she used to put she used to like roll them up and put them in my car door And I used to always complain and say grandma take that and like with you when you leave the car She didn’t want to so then she just started throwing it out of the window.

So I then started to wonder, like, who picks up my grandma’s lottery tickets that she throws out of my window as we’re going down the road.

I also am a person who, um, experienced litter. Let’s tell you about my trauma. Um, my grandma who passed last year was a person who would always get like lotto scratch offs.

And when she didn’t win, she would put them in like the door, like in the door of my car. So I would hate it and be like, stop leaving trash in my car, grandma. So then she started to just toss them out of the window

I do not see lottery tickets very often, but now, particularly since this listener asked this question, you look around and actually if you’re looking for litter, it’s a lot easier to see it.

It so it is a problem, right? There is trash on the highways, uh, and it still remains a problem. Before your time, a long time ago, Amber, I’m a little bit older than you are. There was a famous TV ad about this. Um, it was a crying Native American man surrounded by litter had a tear in his eye.

Some people. I have a deep, abiding respect for the natural beauty that was once this country. And some people don’t. People start pollution. People can stop it.

Real dramatic.

Yes, very moving, actually. Like, I still remember it decades later, even though I found out later the Native American was played by an Italian American, not a real Native American, but still, it made a big difference. It was this big anti litter campaign and clearly didn’t solve the problem that there’s still litter out there.

In fact, as a society, we spend billions picking up tons of trash. Uh, do you have any thoughts about, uh, people who pick up litter? So I know your grandma was a litterer. Uh, what do you normally think about people who litter?

Normally when we see people picking up trash, it’s like a community service thing. Yeah. Like you’ve, you’re on probation or you’ve done something and you have to do community service hours and you’re always in a vest on the side of the highway picking up trash or maybe a volunteer.

But I’m not sure if there’s like a set program for

right. And there are actually, so there are here right in Virginia, there are litter campaigns or anti litter campaigns. Uh, at the state level, the VDOT, the Virginia Department of Transportation has a whole website, Virginia is for lovers, not litter. Yeah, now more locally, there’s a regional government organization called Plan RVA. They help to coordinate action among local governments and they have a Don’t Trash Central Virginia campaign with local partners like Don’t Trash Henrico or Don’t Trash Ashland.

Huh, I never knew that.

Yeah, so there are lots of these sort of campaigns with signs and websites and efforts to get the word out.

Okay, sir, is anyone actually picking up the trash? So we have a lot of these campaigns, but like who’s actually doing the

Right, and so there may be some of these community service programs that you’re talking about, but also a lot of volunteers. So, uh, every year there are events. Uh, the Alliance for the Chesapeake Bay, which is a non profit group, has this project Clean Stream every April, where they, and that’s all over the Chesapeake Bay watershed, which is huge, like runs up to, to Maryland.

But here in, in Richmond, in RVA, lots of folks meet at places like Reedy Creek, and they pick up a bunch of trash there. And then just in terms of highways and the on ramps, right, there are these Adopt a Highway programs.

And then finally, just in terms of the roadways and the on ramps, there are still those adopt a highway programs where, you know, businesses, community groups can commit to removing trash, right? see the signs that say adopt a highway.

That’s actually people do clean up the

Is that what that is? I never knew. I always thought it was like you buy a portion of it or you give money to someone else to do the thing and you have the sign that says, this is my part of the road.

right. I thought that was the case too, but it turns out that VDOT and others actually want you to go and clean up the highway. In fact, uh, I think VDOT’s website says, like, you have to document your cleanups, because if you don’t tell us you’re doing it, we might take away your sign. Like, you can actually lose your sign if you don’t document it.

Take care of the highway the way you committed.

I kind of now wanna pay more attention so I can figure out who loses their sign so I nab that part of the highway or the bike rail

That’s right, it right up for you. That’s right. So there are people cleaning up the highway, right? There are people who are trying to do it. They may not get to everything and everywhere, but there are anti litter campaigns and efforts to clean up.

And you can also like make your own groups to like volunteer and pick up trash just on your own without any prompting.

Exactly right. And if you reach out to some of these organizations, they’ll even give you some supplies to help. Okay. What Amber, what if listeners have their own question about local government?

If you have your own, question, listeners can go to our website, rvasgotissues. vpm. org and click on the ask a question

That’s right. Click away. Thanks, Amber.

Thanks, Rich

OPENOVERSIGHTVA

  📍 . So this is Episode 7, Community Spotlight, Take 1. There are various police forces in RVA, from city and county departments to sheriffs and state police. But while we know they can keep tabs on the public, Now, there’s a way for the public to keep tabs on the police. On this episode, we’re shining our community spotlight on Alice Minium.

She’s the founder and director of Open Oversight Virginia, a non profit web resource that promotes police transparency. Welcome, Alice.

Hi, thank you for having me.

Yeah, um, Alice, I think a lot of people take their local police for granted. Oh, police, they keep us safe, you know, they might pull me over for speeding sometimes, but that’s, that’s it. Right, but some people have more negative encounters, right? How does open oversight help with that?

Um, resources and ability to be aware of their police department and what they’re doing. Um, because like you said, that’s a thing a lot of times we just assume we can’t have.

And um, when you pay attention, you see a lot. And that’s, and also the attitude of this is great, you know, police are just a given, they protect us, isn’t always the same in different areas that we go to. It depends a lot on who lives there.

and it’s also, um, you know, these are public servants, right? They’re government employees. But we think of them as a kind of separate category. If you told people, oh, you know, every public employee is perfect and we don’t need to know about them or think about them, they would probably wonder what you’re saying, people have that idea about police, don’t they?

Yeah. And it’s, it’s funny because they’re the one profession that has the legal authority to, you know, take your life, incarcerate you. And so if anything, I think a lot of people would agree that they deserve more oversight. Um, when it comes to not just keeping the public safe, but keeping us safe from misconduct on their part.

and so this website, this web resource kind of, it started around the time of the George Floyd protests, right? That was what kind of clued you in that something like this was necessary?

Yeah, and it, it built out of, there are a lot of similar projects nationwide that kind of came out around that time, that most of them started as spreadsheets, and initially with some FOIA requests, and a lot of it was just getting, Information gathered on the ground from interactions, and a lot of people realized around the same time how useful it would be to sort of just have access to these basic facts in case we ever needed them in the future, and turns out we still do. Yeah, so the about police that’s hard to get elsewhere, what, what specific information are we talking about and

and how do you get it? Like what’s on the website?

 

Um, so

like, unfortunately, we are still at the most basic information possible because it has seemed to get a holistic, like, standard data set for everything.

We want everything we have to be official. We want it all to be 100 percent for sure, right? And so we are focusing primarily on names, job titles. And when we can salaries, and so we have, you know, policy manuals. We have some incident reports. We have some dispatch information and a whole whole lot of information.

But the key like foundation of the website is the identities is who these officers are, what units they work, what their badge numbers are and information that you need to if you have an encounter with an officer to it. Sort of understand what happened to you. And if you want to take action to do so,

And so, where do you get this information from? readily available? Oh, so you have to FOIA it.

and then we we sort of enrich it with a lot of other public resources. But because of the nature of the site, we don’t ever publish anything that’s not like from them, like from the government for sure. So that in case it was ever questioned, we would know that it’s right. Um,

so how do these police departments and officers feel when you ask them for this information, whether through asking initially or then a FOIA request?

It’s gotten used I guess I could just say they’ve gotten used to me. to just work

Most of them have gotten used to me and have figured out that I don’t go away and it’s easier to just work with me to get this information. But initially and across the board, the attitude is pretty hostile. It’s kind of assumed that, um, I have negative intentions or just want to get in their business.

And I think it’s my business. I think it’s all of our business. And, um, It, it’s, it’s, um, the opinions vary, but the fact is the law says that we have access to this, and, um, it’s essential, and, um, we’ll see for it if we have to, and we have now twice, and there are some police officers in some departments who don’t view us negatively, and who, like, love what we do, so it really, really goes either way.

Right, and so are you able then sometimes to just ask them for information and get it without having to and things

Yeah, I recently sent out like a for annual report. I asked the chiefs. I sent a big email to all the chiefs and said, because I have their data on the incidents reported for that year was shootings. But I want to make sure it was right. And so I asked them individually. And a lot of these guys sent me what I asked for.

They sent me signed letters stating that their information was current and the ones who didn’t sent me reports. When I asked, and I had better luck than with FOIA. So it really, it really depends. Um, I’m hoping to get more situations where the information is just given to me. Um, but again, it really, it really

again, it really, it really depends. Um, it gets this information all.

They like me less. Um, it’s, it’s a little embarrassing because I can get this information all across the state, but in my own cities where I have the hardest time. Um, It’s, it’s always, always, to say an uphill battle would be putting it mildly, um, it’s, I sometimes have to have people file requests for me, because I get so much difficulty when it’s our um, and,

a lot

I don’t know, for some reason our city doesn’t seem to have a lot of public, um, Resources available about it compared to other ones like, you know, they even took down their employee directory.

I saw someone noticed in the news like it’s, it’s, it’s silly and it’s, um, it’s problematic. Yeah,

ironic too, considering you’re, you live here and it was being here in Richmond, right, that inspires you to create this

Yeah, yeah, it’s embarrassing and then I guess I was talking to someone about it and they’re like well Maybe it’s not a coincidence.

Maybe why But we still get it. We still get it No matter what like this information like people who police officers are is I mean you you can’t really hide your identity and work for the government indefinitely, we’re very resourceful and Encounters with police are they leave Traces always. Um,

And so do you have an example of like a case or an officer, um, that would demonstrate why we need this information? So

Sure. Um, so this so he was a bald guy and actually, so a friend of mine, um, had an encounter, as they would say, with him at, um, the demonstration on, at the, um, the city, um, The city, the sit in, do you remember? Yeah, at City Hall. Yeah.

is around the time of the George Floyd protests? Yes.

yeah, it was that one night and, um, they had an encounter with him.

I had an encounter with him. I had two encounters with him, and then he, he just like, had this reputation of sort of being a little unhinged. Like, this guy was a little unhinged. He would come in, he would hit you, and then he would just take people. He, he was not a good guy. It seemed evident. It’s like, who is he?

And, um, so around the time that I was filing my lawsuit with Jimmy and Goad and a bunch of people against the police for some of those incidents, I started doing research in those videos that we had of him to sort of try to figure out their names and to match up these guys. So his name is Benjamin Frazier.

And when I googled him, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. He was sued a year prior for, um, uh, racial profiling at a traffic stop. The woman got like a million dollars. Um, her, I think her name was Thelma something, um, before that, two years prior, he, he, he had a complaint from, um, Someone for twisting his arm when he went inside the jail.

He’s been sued at least three times just from like what’s public on Lake Pacer. And so I don’t even know what else has happened but what it showed and he, a lot of the ones whose names we knew showed up like that. There’s another one, Mark Sims, who was, he’s a lieutenant now. He runs, um, a whole, I think it’s like a whole sector or something.

Or maybe a whole precinct. He, um, there was an incident with him, um. There’s a marijuana, like, smell situation, and they went into the wrong house, and it was a kid who, um, he was a college student, they came in and they ripped all his clothes off, they beat him, and then they said, who wants to be the officer assaulted, and, um, took him to jail, and then this guy has done that twice, another time at a traffic stop, and really, just at the end of the day, what this illustrates is To me, is that there are demonstrable patterns of behavior that I think if we were all aware of, um, could mitigate some of that harm.

And I think there are a lot of things that if everybody knew them, we wouldn’t possibly tolerate. And, um, at least just giving access to the information so you can know them if you want, I think keeps us safe and gives us the power to

us the power to

take action if we’d like, which, you know,

Right, and so it’s, it’s part of this whole broader ideal and goal, right?

If it’s, again, it’s just public knowledge is important to help protect us and keep us safe.

safe. Like a predator in my neighborhood for my own safety just to be aware and I feel that a lot of the time some of these officers are like that.

Just really empowering. And

And this kind of goes back to what I said at the beginning, right?

For a lot of folks who have not had any kind of negative experiences with police, it’s hard for them to imagine, right? It’s just hard for them to put themselves into the position of other folks. it sounds to me like what you’re trying to do in part is just tell stories. of the whole gamut of experiences with police, not just for some folks.

Does that

Yeah, exactly. The whole, the whole thing. And if there’s nothing going wrong, then I don’t know why it shouldn’t be documented. But these are intense situations with high stakes.

when something happens that might lead to scrutiny or something traumatic, there’s a lot of sort of information warfare may be the wrong word, but there’s a lot of active movement on the part of the perpetrators or the government or whoever to sort of say what happened and how things were. And I think we’ve learned that those stories aren’t always entirely honest. And, um, Um, I, it’s definitely, definitely worth questioning and if, I think it’s, it’s a good idea for us to all have our own control on the facts and not just defer to these agencies and, um, And they’re interesting stories, um, and they’re valuable, yeah. People love it. I don’t know. I didn’t think they would, but they do.

And so what’s next for Open Oversight and the work that you do?

Um, right now we are building out some more data resources is our focus. We’re working with trying to make the dispatch data more accessible so that people can have real time tools. Um, Kevin. Is working on, uh, a map of the FLOT cameras around the city, since that’s something people ask for.

Right, and so these FLOT cameras, what are those? Um,

they’re, uh, how would you explain

over. So,

like these SWAT cameras. Sorry. Slide on over.

So, Open Oversight, here working on new stuff,

what Rich will do is he’ll on new stuff, and, um, Kevin, and then what’s your last name? Affinity. Affinity, yeah.

Finity. So they

our listeners know who you are. Okay. Okay.

So, Kevin Finity, you also work on Open Oversight. Uh, what’s your role with Open Oversight? Open Oversight.

So I mostly handle a lot of the database and, and data.

Um, just reorganizing it and, and cleaning it up and making it into a consistent format.

And so what’s with these Flock cameras? What are those?

So the flock cameras are, uh, flock is a relatively new company. Who’s started pushing these automatic license plate reader cameras, which basically take a picture of every car that drives by, uh, all day, and sends them all to their cloud infrastructure where police officers or anyone with a license later can just go view and track where all of the vehicles have been moving all over town. In theory, they’re supposed to only use this for actual criminal cases they’re pursuing, but, you know, that’s left up to the discretion of the department.

And so it’s sort of unchecked surveillance and maybe not everyone knows that this is happening.

Yeah, they’re just, they aren’t conspicuous at all, it’s just a black pole with a solar panel on top and a tiny little web camera. Um, and they’ve just quietly been putting them up all over town.

And so you’re starting to map these on an actual map, right? So you can see where they are.

so far we only have a couple, honestly, because, you know, they’re user submitted, so uh, It’s depending on people finding them and submitting them.

what

Alice, um, let’s get back to this idea about what’s next for open oversight.

You’ve talked a little bit about the technical stuff that you’re working on. Uh, what about this kind of idea? I think you mentioned to our producers about building relationships. What does that mean?

that mean? Um, that’s it. That’s another like probably even a bigger thing is um, just sort of connecting with people who use our tools or who people who have a shared stake in this and um, helping figure out what they need and how we can give it to them.

Um, we’re working with RTAP on some things right

And what’s our

Richmond Transparency and Accountability Project, a little bit. We’re working with some other orgs nationally, but um, a lot of the, the most fun things that we’ve been doing are, um, a couple of us have been going out and doing cop watch, which has been fun.

Um, so we get to, Go into areas that like we wouldn’t usually go because that’s where a lot of times police are and see these interactions and like just document them like on our own and that has been really Really informative, um, for understanding this information that we get, like, to see it play out.

Just observe actual interactions between police and citizens, right? That’s the

Yeah, and they usually, they usually, um, end pretty quickly once we get there. Um, yeah. And

And do you feel like there are, these are negative experiences for the people who are meeting these officers?

officers? Yes, absolutely, across the board. And, um, it’s It’s, um, like the, the first one ever that we did a couple weeks ago since we, um, was a kid.

He was black and he was pulling out of a parking lot at the place where he lived, his own apartment complex. And we saw an officer and he was up there and he was talking to him kind of behind there, pulled back behind a tree. And he had that like look to him, the cop did, of like, he was sort of like amping himself up.

Like there’s a particular look that you learn to recognize. And so we came up and we just started watching. And, um, they didn’t see that coming, and he, um, I asked him, like, what he was being stopped for, and, um, he said he fit a description, and I said, what description, and he said, a man, and I was like, well, that could be all kinds of people, and the goal was just to kind of, um, to sort of, I don’t know, to just, the, the fact of, interestingly, of me being there, I didn’t realize how much power, like, I, honestly, I think it was my whiteness, to be clear, like, that, uh, shook them off because originally they thought I was like some kind of like pro police sort of like documentary but I really just wanted wanted them to know they were being watched and I didn’t have to say much but all of a sudden that interaction turned around and um they let him go but I don’t know how it would have gone and those things seem to happen so often like most of what they do from what I’ve seen at least half is just harass black people at traffic stops.

And so just documenting incidences is part of what you’re trying to do with this website, right?

yes. Um, because there’s a lot for that too, I think, because it feels almost like these things, like I have never lived that experience and I will never live that experience. But there’s a lot of, at least from what I’ve been through to a degree with police, there’s a lot of indignity to not knowing or not understanding.

It’s not being believed about what happened to you, and it’s just kind of erased. And so having it written down, and the facts of it, is just really empowering. And

So what should our listeners do if they want to find out more about the officers in their community?

they could go to, honestly, my, my favorite tool is the search engine, above all else in the, on the website, even though we have a lot.

It would be go to OpenOversightVA. org slash browse. And there is a box where you you can type in, um, uh, you can also do slash search, that’s a different kind where you can identify by, um, the characteristics and, um, the badge number. But with this one can search by name and you can search 30.

and you can also search, uh, like if you want to just the list of all of the officers in your community, right? If you have that information

yeah, we have that up there. So everything that we have is also downloadable. It’s like a spreadsheet if you want it that way. So at the bottom of the website, there’s something says download department data if somebody just wanted a list. But also each department has its own like gallery. Um, if you click on that.

Departments at the top, but also everybody’s entitled to that information. If they want to do a for a request, you can go to the city website. You can look at the police department and find the FOIA contact and ask them for that. And if Anybody has trouble, they can email me and I will help them. It is alice at openoversightva. org.

And there’s also a feature where individuals can contribute their stories to the right?

yes. Yes, they can. Um, same would be, it would be the same email contact. Um, we get a lot of, a lot of tips for varying, varying backgrounds.

Gotcha. Alice Miniam is the founder and director of Open Oversight VA. Thank you so much. Thank you,

Thank you for having me.  

OUTRO

our show. Thanks to our guests, Stoner, Winslet, Ma, Kong, and Alice Minium. RVA has got issues, but we need you to tell us what those issues are. Submit a question or tell us about something exciting going on in your community at our website. RVAsGotIssues. vpm. org. Join us next time when RVA’s Got Issues with, well, if you want to know, subscribe to us wherever you download podcasts. While you’re at it, tell a friend about us, share a social media post, or even leave a review on your favorite podcasting platform. Let’s get everyone in RVA listening. RVA’s Got Issues is produced by Max Wasserman and Amber Coles, and edited by Steve Lack. Our theme music was composed by Alexander Hitchens. Meg Lindholm is our executive producer. Steve Humble is VPM’s chief content officer. I’m your host, Rich Marr. Thanks for listening.

 

 

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