Trigger Warning: Breaking the Cycle of Gun Violence

RICH: Welcome to RVAs. Got Issues, a podcast about politics and public affairs in and around Richmond, Virginia. I’m your host, rich Maher. Each episode you’ll hear from the biggest newsmakers and action takers here in RVA. We’ll tell you what’s happening, what’s next, and what you can do about it. On this episode, RVA’s got issues with gun violence. You’ll hear from Maurice Washington and Sarah Scarborough. They’re part of a local non profit that has implemented a successful gun violence prevention program in Hopewell. And now they’re bringing it to Petersburg and to here in Richmond. Then, RVA’s got questions about why it’s so hard for local government to fix problems. If you ask them, they may tell you, we can’t, and it’s all because of a guy named Dillon? We’ll answer a listener question about the Dillon Rule and why it’s so important for local governments in Virginia. Finally, RVA’s Got Answers about mindfulness. Ashley Williams is the founder of the Well Collective, a place and a movement that brings history and healing to Shocko Bottom and beyond. All that and more, coming up on RVA’s Got Issues.

 

RICH: On this episode, RVA’s Got Issues with gun violence. Dr. Sarah Scarborough and Maurice Washington join us from Real Life, a Richmond based nonprofit group that works with returning citizens, people exiting from incarceration. In 2023, Real Life launched the Violence Prevention Initiative, also called Project Safe, Alive and Free, in the city of Hopewell. This program aims to prevent gun violence and has already produced results with an over 70 percent reduction in shooting deaths in the first six months of the program. This program will be coming to parts of Richmond later this year. Sarah Maurice, thanks for joining us.

SARAH: Thank you for having us. 

RICH: Sarah, let’s start with you. You’re the founder and director of Real Life. I think you have a sense of the big picture here. How has gun violence been addressed in the past? How has this program different from what we’ve done before?

SARAH: A lot of the gun violence efforts and initiatives that you see not only in the city and Virginia and across the country are on a very macro level and also on a level that really has been left to law enforcement. A lot of it also has been more prevention rather than intervention. They’re looking at middle school programs and providing after school youth programs and things of that nature, which are fantastic. So literally bullets stop flying immediately.

RICH: Yeah, one of the interesting things about the, is this focus on preventing retaliations. what exactly does that mean in the context of eliminating gun violence?

SARAH: Most gunfire that, happens is by a very small percent of an entire population. You’re looking at 0. 1 to 0. 5 percent of an entire population. That is also driven by group or gang involvement. Um,, sometimes it’s a formalized gang, other times it might just be a few folks in a neighborhood, but about 70 percent of gun violence is driven by gang involvement. This very small percent that is group affiliated. And so, while an initial gunfire may not be avoided and can’t be avoided, most issues really lead to four retaliations. That’s what research shows. And so, if we can’t prevent the first one, we can intercede and intercept so that the next four are avoided.

RICH: And so this really is hands on, the way that this program’s described, how it’s modeled. Maurice, that’s where you come in, as a coordinator, You do a lot of the hands on service work working, with people in the program. Now, before we get into the details of the program, you said to our producers that you knew this program would work when you first learned about it. Can you talk more about why you felt that way when you heard about it?

MAURICE: I just went back to situations that I’ve been in. Specifically a situation, you know, when I witnessed my friends get killed in front of me. And during this time, my life, I had went to prison, came home, you know, I was trying to, I was doing the right thing. At the time I was just outside hanging out with my friends. I was on the phone, I seen them backing up, two guys walking up to them with guns in their hands, you know, trying to rob them, and, and it it wasn’t, you know, they was backing up to me, me, I had to make a split decision, and I took off running, you know, I’m thinking I’m gonna get shot in the back, I didn’t, made it in the house as the gunshots were going off, and they got, and I ran upstairs and started looking out the window, there’s a lot of gunshots. They died in front of me while I was on the phone with law enforcement. And when the law enforcement came, um, they asked me a bunch of questions and it kind of gave me the feeling like I might have set them up or something like that. So this, this whole situation, it was it was just, it was, it was, it, it really hurt me. ’cause I’m like, I’m, I called y’all, you know, I’m, I sit here watching them, like, you know, watching them die. And the family came there, I was telling ’em the same thing, you know, my truck was shot up. So, um, yeah, just hearing about this program, what we do. I just wish I had somebody to come talk to me and say, Are you okay? I know your friends just got killed in front of you. Do you want somebody to talk to? Yes, I do need somebody to talk to.

RICH: Right, So you’re able to take that experience to the people that you’re working with, right? You can say I was where you were at some point. You’ve talked publicly about this, right?

MAURICE: Yes, I’ve been to prison, been locked up in several jails throughout the city. and been involved in the streets majority of my life, and in turn got introduced to the real life program. I’m a lot of guys I’m dealing with are doing things that I did most of my life. So I’m somebody to them that has changed their life around. I stand on positivity, how I live my life every day, and I’m able to show them exactly how it’s done exactly how I did it.

RICH: you’re glad to reach out to someone the way you wish someone had reached out to you, but it still suggests to me that you need a lot of work to prep this, right? You can’t just wander in and just say I’m Maurice, believe me, trust me, immediately, right? There’s some preparation, there’s community buy in. Who has to be involved? Who do you talk to to make a program like this work. Like, how do they actually get the buy in? 

SARAH: And before implementing this program in any locality, it’s about six months of planning. And a huge part of that planning process is really engaging the community. Everybody. From the police department, to government, elected officials, the school superintendent, the football coaches at the high school, probation, commonwealth attorney, and, the more government related stakeholders. But then you’re also looking at, Local social services, philanthropy, churches, people that have been working within the community that might be with nonprofits or just themselves who have a vested interest. And through that, , the trust is established. Whether it be community members or clients that our life coaches start working with it, it is that partnership.

RICH: Sarah, your group, Real Life, has actually been featured in a, another VPM podcast called Track Change. One of the insights that we learn about a lot of the folks who are incarcerated there is just the way that when you grow up with violence, there’s just the kind of fear that you live with. Um, it’s, It’s not unreasonable for people to want to have weapons, to want to feel like they can protect themselves, , but that can lead to really bad outcomes. So Maurice, what do you say to someone who comes at you, with a really rational, response, there’s violence in my life. What am I supposed to do? I need my own gun. I need to, to go out and retaliate in order to protect myself. How do you talk to someone who’s in that kind of environment?

MAURICE: I felt the same thing been in this been in situations where I have to have a gun. Like, look, man, you know, I’ll tell him, like, I understand what you’re going to going through. But if you end up getting a situation, you could be dead. Or you can end up shooting somebody and being in prison for the rest of your life. I’m not sure what, what, what the situation you’re in the beef you have, but at the end of the day, you know, if they got kids, let them know, you want to be here for your kids. Like sometimes you have to change the things you do. The people you hang out with, you know, in the places you hang out at, like you have to change those things or you’re gonna, you know, especially situation, you’re gonna end up shooting somebody being shot itself.

RICH: Right, and so how do you find out whether someone is at risk, right? Are you checking like social media? Are you asking these community members, like the guides, the people you have, like how are you figuring out this is the person that we need to talk to, they’re the one who’s at risk?

MAURICE: In the beginning, we sat down with law enforcement, went over the shootings for the last two or three years. We went over each one and then we picked out who was at risk. It could be two guys and we know they hang out with each other.And we know they might be still, have some beef with some other guys. So they know, who has beef with who and who might be ever shooting somebody being shot again. So that’s some of the things that we look at to to get the original list. But also every week we do the same thing. We sit down with law enforcement. So any shooting that occurs in that week, we look at it as to who might be at risk of retaliating or who’s close to them that could be shot as well.

RICH: So you, you have experienced gun violence. You’ve mentioned that you have this, you’ve come at this from the other side. What do you say to someone who might be worried about this, working with law enforcement, right? There’s a sense that, oh, you’re targeting people or this is like identifying people and criminalizing them already. Like, yeah, what do you, What do you say to someone who’s worried about that kind of stuff?

MAURICE: The program isn’t designed, like I said, to attack anybody, lock anybody up. My job is to come in and try to help these individuals. If anybody is, wanted or being looked at by law enforcement, we’re not allowed to deal with them. And I also tell them, look. I don’t want to know anything about what you’re doing. I’m only here to help you. What do you need? And that’s where we started. 

RICH: We’re talking with Sarah Scarborough and Maurice Washington of the nonprofit group Real Life. We’ll hear more about their work, including how they’re bringing this violence prevention program to Petersburg and here in Richmond, right after this on RVA’s Got Issues. Alright, we’ll bring it back.

RICH: This is RVA’s Got Issues. We’re back with Maurice Washington and Sarah Scarborough talking about a new gun violence prevention program. What makes this program unique, as we’ve been talking about, is its one on one approach for addressing gun violence. Maurice, isn’t there a term that you use for the part of the process where you actually reach out to people?

MAURICE: Custom notifications. Each, we try to make sure that each one is custom as far as who’s the best person that we can go to the door and talk to these guys with in order to build a better relationship with them. Okay. sir. So the custom notification is just me coming to them. , a law enforcement officer as well. it might be a football coach or somebody that we, if we know that they play baseball, we try to reach out to the baseball coach.

So when I’m introduced, they’re vouching for me. But also, when I talk to him, I’m able to meet him exactly where they are. And these guys know I’m genuine. I’m just talking to him like we’re just in the streets, just talking, letting them know, , look, man, you need to tighten up.

at your door today telling you that you have risk of gun violence, severe risk of shooting somebody of being shot. And I tell them that what I went through in order to be at their door and they understand that.

Someone who is respected in the community, maybe a higher ranked person in law enforcement that’s not actually doing doing the arrest as well. And then somebody in the community that’s known, it might be a football coach or somebody that we, if we know that they play baseball, we try to reach out to the baseball coach.

you know,

Anything that if we could find connecting that individual to somebody in the community. So they telling them the same message that we care about you’re not in trouble. We’re here today to let you know that you have risk of shooting somebody or being shot. And my job , is to be here to help you out.

If you was warned about law enforcement, they go relentlessly try to get you and lock you up. And I’m here to relentlessly try to keep you out of jail and keep you not in the hospital from suffering gunshot wounds or worse. And in the grave. So what do

What do you say to someone who might be resistant, right? I imagine you encounter people with a lot of different reactions. If someone’s resistant, or if they’re angry, or if they become emotional, what do you do to overcome their resistance.

you know, I get

Oh, really?

the sense that you see where I’m coming from. I break it.

I’m passionate about this. You know, I really, you know, we all we want to see these guys not out here shooting anybody going to prison or, being shot themselves.

But the time I was met with some resistance, it wasn’t from the guy who was coming to see was from his brother because he had just his brother had just got shot.

So we came there. and he’s what are y’all doing here? Y’all need to go find a person that killed. He was talking to the law enforcement. He’s really upset with the law enforcement because they’re there like you come over here talking about you want to help and all this go lock him up.

I was just I felt his pain and I just told him I’m sorry about your loss and not your loss. I’m sorry. I’m sorry that about your brother that he had got shot, and I related my pain to him. And then left. When somebody’s that mad or in that certain situation, there’s not really much you can say to them except to sympathize with them and leave my information when he did calm down and want to talk.

I told him I’m here to help him.

You’re saying that most people are just really, seem really receptive, right? They’re grateful for you to be there? Is it that you’re offering kind of role model for them? Is that the idea?

I think a lot of them they really appreciate that someone is there to help them out. And when I tell them some of the ways I can help them out someone might be interested. And if we can help you get a job, are you working or anything you’re going to just talk to me?

I just want to spend time with you. Get to know you. We take some of the guys out to eat. It’s a list of things we try to do just to spend time and build a relationship. That’s the first goal is to build a relationship with them. And that’s why I tell them I’m just here to be somebody in your life that you can reach out to.

And so what does happen after that initial custom meeting? You said you’re relentless. So what does that mean? How does that translate into what happens afterwards?

of times I have to keep reaching out before out before I can actually sit down with them. And but

my first thing is, I try to take them out to eat. It’s just something about sitting down, eating with the guys and being able to get to know him initially.

A lot of them like that we can go out to eat.

That’s a lot of them say it sounds good to me. And that’s what we do. So

The biggest struggle is just to keep them engaged with me.

Some guys, we might only have, like,

I might have had one engagement with a few of the guys but I’m okay with that because at least they know that they’re at risk of shooting somebody being shot and make some second guess for doing something and the time that I did have with them, I was able to put some juice in their head.

But a lot of, but the relentless part is, we,

we recently looked down our list and went back on the guys that we cut that fell off or, , and was able to reengage with some of them. So we try to do things like that and try to keep reaching out to them, keep reaching out to them. And I got a couple of guys now that

I’ve,

I’ve been doing that with and now they’re calling me,

after a while they might be going through something.

They don’t feel like dealing with me. You know, but then a month later, a couple months later, I reached out to him and they in a different headspace and like, Yeah, man, come on, let’s I’ll go with you. Let’s go. Let’s go grab something to eat. And then I’m able to reach him again.

So So now you folks are expanding, right? This, , you’re bringing the program to Petersburg. You’re also working in Richmond here with, uh, Richmond Regional Housing Authority, which operates, uh, the public housing, uh, projects in, in Richmond. Sarah, where are we in that process? How, how are you adapting to this new environment here in Richmond?

Yeah, so we began both in the Richmond Housing Communities, RRHA and Petersburg in January as far as planning. And it’ll take us about six months, so through June, of the planning, the vulnerability problem analysis, identifying those who are at risk, really understanding the group dynamics and the layout, and establishing the partnerships within the community that we had talked about before.

And so that’s where we are right now. , we are Excited to start. , it is so important. I think obviously for the obvious, everyone watches the news and see what’s going on in all of these areas. But, Without doing Petersburg, we can only be but so successful in Hopewell, and without doing RRHA in Richmond, we can only be but so successful in Petersburg,

RICH: Sarah, but what kind of results are you getting from this program in Hopewell? this program? So we looked at the number of shootings from June to December of 2022 in comparison to that same period in 2023, and we had a 71 percent reduction in gun violence and about a 40 percent reduction in overall violence.

So we were, uh, you know, obviously a tremendous. Decrease in gun violence for the first six months that we had implemented the program. Uh, now that we have completed the first quarter of 2024, it’s gone down to about 50%. So, still great numbers, great success, reductions, again, in comparison to the same months that we had.

Last year, however, we really believe that the amount of gunfire in Petersburg and in Richmond is driving the going from 71 percent to 50 percent because there is a lot of overlap of people, of situations, of problems. Uh, so by starting in those other two jurisdictions, we believe that we’ll be able to, you know, increase that number more.

gun violence isn’t going to respect a city border, and so taking a more regional approach will hopefully reduce violence on all of these areas, right?

Absolutely. And, and I don’t think that people realize the amount of spillover. You know, there is a ton of cross section in violence between Petersburg and Richmond. There is a tremendous amount between Hopewell and Petersburg in all around. Um, and so really taking this approach will lead to the best success now, but also long term. Because there is a tremendous amount of overlap of crime in those jurisdictions.

And so, really having this regional kind of tri cities approach, , I think is going to really bode to long term. Success and not just, success this month or, for a few months

what does success look like? How do you imagine success, uh, for this program? Initially, it’s really simple , gun violence reduction. So we looked at the number of shootings from June to December of 2022 in comparison to that same period in 2023, and we had a 71 percent reduction in gun violence and about a 40 percent reduction in overall violence. And so it really is looking back and comparison, comparing this month versus this month last year and looking at the number of, how many shootings there were, how many bullets to body, how many homicides and. Hopefully, seeing that go down, we also look at other things such as the number of folks that not only is, does our life coaches, engage with, but then long term engagement.

What does that look like? And what does that long term change look like? If anything, among those that our life coaches are working with. So do they get a job, , have, do they get in more trouble, are they arrested again? What is going on with probation? So kind of those long term life things we look at as well for each individual. What does it look like to you? What does it feel like to you? Because you’re directly engaging these folks, you’re really getting to know them. What’s a successful outcome feel like? It feels good feels great just seeing guys now, from when I first started talking to them, and now they’re working, spending more time with their kids, and when I see them, they’re just in a happier space, um, cause, cause I’m, I’m not gonna say, well, I feel like it’s cause I, you know, cause we got to them, you know.

I’m overjoyed a lot of times, just, just to know that I’m reach, they’re reaching out to me and I can have that relationship with them, it’s just, it’s, it’s amazing. I do. Um, you know, Maurice, as he had shared, has went through our program and we initially met him when he was incarcerated and he came through our recovery housing and recovery program, but he also has children.

And so, one of my favorite parts of real life and our recovery housing as a mom is seeing mothers and fathers back in the lives of their children. And while many children visit their mother or father while incarcerated, no child should ever have to look through glass. to see their, uh, see the so this is very similar o You know, these guys, a l arrested and have been in them spend time with thei building those bonds and not run in the streets an and having their shot, ho incredible and it, it just is the start of just generational change. Um, have a lot of them. Yeah, I mean, I have five kids. Um, two of them I haven’t seen in a while. Um, two of my seed weekly. One of them lives out of state. And once again, that’s some of the things that I can that I talked to some of the guys about, you know, I just started seeing two of my kids a whole lot more.

And it’s because of my life change. And I’m able to relate that to them. I had a guy was complaining about the same thing like he hasn’t seen his child. And I told him, look, man, we got to take responsibility. These things, we’re going to jail. We’re going to prison and coming home.

And, they’re left out here, we’re leaving with their mothers, a lot of times, like I have, might have had a lot of problems with their with their child’s mother and the same thing he was going through. And I just told him, just getting to a better place work on yourself.

And then you’ll be able to see your child again.

That’s great. And so what can our listeners do to help you folks?

Um, we have a very active social media presence under real life. Uh, we have a very in depth website, reallifeprogram. org, and so we have everything that’s listed on there, but we are a non profit organization, and so in order to provide our recovery housing and Project SAFE, uh, we are continually fundraising, we have events.

Galas golf tournament, all of that. So anybody who is interested in financially supporting, of course we would be very appreciative. But you know, as we’ve talked a lot about, it really is community partnership that makes this work. And so there is somebody with a vested interest in any of these areas, Hopewell, Petersburg, RRHA, and wants to get involved.

Wants to do our community engagement, wants to attend events that we have there, um, you know, anything related to involvement, we would love to have them. So again, all of that information is on our website, reallifeprogram.org, uh, as well as the contact us and ways to, uh, be able to reach out in order to begin those conversations.

RICH: Dr. Sarah Scarborough is the founder and director of Real Life. Maurice Washington is a coordinator with Real Life’s Violence Prevention Initiative. Thank you both so much for joining us.

SARAH: Thank you so much for having us.

 

RICH: On each episode of RVA’s Got Issues, we’ll answer a question from listeners like you. A question about local government or what’s going on in the community. On this episode, RVA’s Got Questions about the Dillon Rule. And to answer it, our producer, Amber Coles, is here. Hi, Amber.

AMBER: Hi, Rich.

RICH: So what question do we have?

AMBER: Alright, so this week’s question is from our listener, Denise Nelson. Denise’s question is, Why is Virginia a Dillon Rule state? What would it take to change that? And based on other states, what could we expect to happen if we expect to happen if we change this? Now, the biggest question about this question is, Who is Dillon?

RICH: Right is a Dillon a person, place, or thing? Yes. Yes, it was a person. It was John F. Dillon. So John Dillon was a state judge in Iowa in the 1860s, and he had some very influential ideas. So Dillon’s main idea was that since local governments are technically the creation of a state government, he wanted to create a state government. The local governments, we’re talking about our cities, our towns, our counties. They can only do the things that state government explicitly says they can. So he said this in some court rulings. He wrote a very influential book. In 1873, the Commentaries on the Law of Municipal Corporations. I’m sure you’ve read that, Standard reading at Yeah, for sure. I have like five copies at home. No, no one’s read this, but the book was very influential. It influenced judges in other states, and so for the last hundred or so years, a lot of judges, a lot of courts, a lot of governments operate in the assumption that local governments really can’t do anything unless the state says so.

AMBER: Okay, so we got that out of the way. how does that relate to something that happens in Virginia?

RICH: So here in Virginia, local governments can do lots of things If the state governments can do lots of things that the state has already said they can. Your city can pass a noise ordinance about how loud your party can be. Your county can issue property taxes on your home or business to help pay for what they do. But if they want to change anything, so here I have a question for you, Amber. Have you ever been to King’s Dominion?

AMBER: a staple in my childhood.

RICH: Yeah, yeah, We were more of a Busch Gardens family ourselves, but lots of people love King’s Dominion too. There was a law in Virginia that said for many years, You could not start school before Labor Day and it was called the King’s Dominion Law because local Tourist industries like the theme parks really liked it that way because their high school kids would still be around in the summer to work the whole summer. Now local school boards didn’t like this. They wanted to change it. They needed to start school earlier. But they had to get special exemptions. They couldn’t get this changed. And the local school board didn’t have the power to do it themselves. So finally, in about 2019, The General Assembly said, okay, we’ll fix this. They changed the King’s Dominion law. And now lots of school districts start in the middle of August, but they needed the state to say it was okay before they could do it. And this happens all the time. City wants to pass a new tax on grocery bags, or the county wants to impose an extra fee for stormwater removal or something. They have to go to the General Assembly and ask them to do it.

AMBER: Okay, so are we stuck with this? Is there a way to change it?

RICH: There is a way to change it, and some states have. About 10 states have something they call Home Rule. So they’ve given blanket authority to counties and cities to do what they want, either in certain areas or just in general. But of those 10 states, Virginia is not one of them. And the folks in the General Assembly, I think, like it that way because it gives them a lot of power. Every year, the local governments have to come crawling down to Richmond and say, Can you please fix this for us? Can you please do this thing? So I don’t think there’s going to be a change in the Dillon Rule anytime soon. And it’s all thanks to this guy, Dillon, who 150 years ago. yeah. It seems like job security too, for the General Assembly. Yeah, they can have a lot of work to do all the

AMBER: Thanks, Rich. If you have any questions, write us at rvasgotissuesatvpm. org.

 

RICH: For this episode’s Community Spotlight, we’re joined by Ashley Williams. Ashley is Well, Ashley, we only have a couple of minutes. So you’re a certified yoga therapist. You’re a founder of the BareSoul Yoga Collective. You’ve been selected as a Style Weekly 40 Under 40. You’re curator of the Race of Richmond art exhibit. You’re the founder and operator of the Weld Collective. I will probably stop there because we need to have time to talk to you. Welcome, Ashley.

ASHLEY: talk to you.

RICH: So the well collective is like you many things. It’s a studio space in Chaco bottom that offers classes and meditation to yoga, things like that. Who are all these programs for? And why is it important to have this array of classes for mental wellness in the city here?

ASHLEY: Yeah, so a lot of the work that has informed how we show up in the collective is deeply tied to the history of Richmond specifically as the home of the second largest space of commerce of enslaved people as one of the largest spaces of commerce of over 200, 000. enslaved people that have then started their time in Richmond and then shifted and created on the American, continent and the American country. And, so, many of the effects of just that simple historical fact, , can land in, being a space that holds a lot of generational and historical trauma. And so the effects of that are, , economic, , Instability or the way that our economic development system has been formed, mental health diagnosis, , physical health disorders, , lack of housing, homelessness, we could name so many things. that are created by the system of oppression that is rooted and that began in our city of Richmond. And so, Bare Soul Wellness, , in the form of both community programming and the Brick and Mortar of the Well Collective stand to create a community space where we can address all of those, , issues, both individually, but then also as a community.

RICH: So it’s not just sign up for classes and we’ll combat that entire history, right? You have to take a more collective approach. , so how does that shake out in the way that you operate your businesses?

ASHLEY: the mission that I tend to invite people in is like, what is your contribution to the well being of both yourself and of those that are in your community? And so the model that we land in is in practice and in community. And so we must practice how to be in deeper relationship with ourselves, mind, body, spirit, , so we can be in deeper relationship and be a witness to those that are around us, mind, body, spirit, socially. And, , as we invite people in, and as people see and experience the work of taking care of their body, witnessing , the thoughts and the perceptions that one might have in their mind, but also how they relate with each other, , there’s an invitation to contribute to that. You can contribute by either leading an offering that, that invites us into contemplation. You can also just contribute by showing up and doing the work on your own, and we trust that the work that you do with yourself then ripples when you go home into your family, when you go into your workspace setting, when you go back to your neighborhood, when you get back into the community.

RICH: So what brought you to this line of work? What brought you to yoga , and practices like that? what brought you to this kind of broader mission?

ASHLEY: In 2013, I experienced a loss of my aunt, Josephine Sonora Bennett, who was a Richmond City social worker and so her work was deeply embedded in caring for those that showed up in our community in real ways and she did that through relationship and a very full warm spirit when she passed away of cancer. I witnessed that I was showing up in community and creating space, but I wasn’t filling my own cup. I did not have. the deep radical self care tools to take care of myself. , and so then I was leading in burnout and then also disconnection. And then the third thing is that the alternative ways that one can take care of themselves when they’re managing physical and mental and emotional, , either diagnosis and or experiences, they weren’t necessarily mainstream. It was pharmaceuticals. But not necessarily , how do I take care of myself at the root? And so I found myself, , in a yoga class. And for me, , from that moment forward, as I started rebuilding that connection, rebuilding my faith and understand my relationship with myself, , I witnessed and noticed that could be something that could be beneficial to those that were in my community. Specifically in that moment, people of color and my family and my friends. , but over time, when you create space that centers and represents, , people of color or those that are not necessarily represented in our mainstream, then we create space for everyone. Since the inception in 2013, whereas resources that were just showing up because it was underrepresented initially has been one that has become context, a space that’s inclusive, a space that’s welcoming and belonging, a space that allows people to show up as they are, whether it’s their race, ethnicity, age, socioeconomic level, , gender, sexual orientation, everybody, has a desire to be well, but everybody should have the space and accessibility to be well, too.

RICH: So let’s talk about what the space looks like. So let’s say, a listener is curious about this, well, collective right and so they drop by on it on an evening. Take us through the space? What’s happening there?

ASHLEY: Yeah, first and foremost, we’re located in Shockoe Bottom, , right on Exchange Alley, right in, , the historic context. So beautiful brick building, but holds a lot of history and narrative of how the city of Richmond was built. And so very strong foundation. People walk in, , And I think the first thing that people say is when they enter into this space, they take a deep exhale. And so that means that they’ve landed, many people even call it home, , in a space that they feel supported, that they feel seen, that they feel like they actually can release any weight that’s off their shoulders based on the world in which you might experience outside of those walls. , you see a very beautiful mural that is done by a local artist. So we do emphasize all things culture, all things art. The mural means when you center family and community, you release fear, you step into bravery, and that leads to an abundant lifestyle. And so creating that context in that sense where it’s a space where people are meant to either see themselves in real ways and or see each other. There’s a lot of smiles, but then there’s also crying it’s a space that holds all types of sensations and the human experience, right? Because particularly because of the historical context you’re talking about, right? There’s a big conversation That happens in some places about White spaces black spaces about how to make everyone feel comfortable together and particularly those You who have , been excluded from spaces before.

RICH: So, how do you approach that? How do you make sure that when you say, , we’re inclusive, we’re, we are welcoming everyone, but we’re also making it welcoming in a way that isn’t dominated by the folks who often dominate inclusive spaces.

ASHLEY: Yeah. So thank you for that question because, , historically, because I am a black woman that initially started out creating space for the black community, , there is that question many times of people like, am I welcome in this space or, maybe that’s not the space that I should go. Cause I want them to have a space. And so As my work has deepened, I’ve had to be really, vocal and invitational to understand that I honor the human experience. And there are moments when that representation needs to be , there’s work that needs to be done within our own demographic to create that, but the larger work is that we have to do it together. A lot of the work is founded on restorative practices, and that means community building. And that means creating space where dialogue and connection can happen in real ways beyond the barriers in which our society has told us that we were different. It’s creating space that’s really invitational. It’s creating a set of values. Our values are love, maintaining constant love. Our values are, , connection creating space that we are able to be in community, and true community, I always say that the collective is made up of a lot of different communities. We’ve created, , We create spaces for us to be in communities with each other, but the collective is like that bridge of where all communities come together and learn about each other and learn about what makes us similar and respect the things that make us different so we get to that human experience then people can see themselves there. And if that identity is not represented in that moment, there’s an invitation for you to show up so you can represent that identity in real ways.

RICH: So, I think some congratulations are in order. You might be expanding a little bit you’ve, , gotten another building so talk a little bit about your choice of this building, this was not an accident, , it was the, I think it’s the branch building on Main Street, right? What does that space mean to you?

ASHLEY: In thought and a vision of creating the Well Collective, it was always meant to be in a space, of historical context. I really truly believe in reclamation of space. , I truly believe in the restoration of space, and Richmond City holds both that. Um, energetic harm and energetic barrier and, um, We have the opportunity to work together to create a space that is healed for lack of a better word in this moment, but, the branch building is, we’re doing history on the building now, but historically one of the first buildings, in the city of, Richmond, specifically after the Civil War. It is also historically like the Virginia Fire and Marshal, insurance space. it lays on the ground in the space where the most commerce of enslaved people happened in our city. , it is the space, , and I don’t know this for it to be 100 percent true, but we are going to be doing deep history, is that it may be on the land of the first bank that has landed in this country. It is my role and my intention is to create a space in which the value of human life is centered. As an abundant form of being in connection with this life versus money or human labor being formed and so creating a restorative education and retreat center where people can learn what it means to value themselves and be in their space of creativity to be taken care of, to be heard, to be felt, to be seen. But to do that through education, to do that through intentional community building, do that through moments of joy and connection, do that through social space and interaction, do that through silence. In this moment, I dare to say is just like recreating and reimagining, , A world that I desire my kids and future generations to be a part of, , and having that happen in Richmond, in a space that has held a lot of harm, , I truly believe in the hope of bringing people together to then create space for healing.

RICH: So there’s specifics about the history of this new building that you’ve got, right? It’s not just that it was a bank, maybe, or that the space it’s on.

ASHLEY: It’s like you, you’ve identified some historical evidence that you found really interesting about it one of the historical moments that happened in Richmond, specifically at where our new building is on 10th and Main, there was an Emancipation, Freedom Day parade that was held there, I believe it was April 3rd, 1905. And so, we have a very clear picture of,, Thousands of African American, citizens walking on 10th and Main to celebrate their freedom years after that proclamation had actually occurred. As I engaged and invited my team there, we recreated that from the old building to the new building. And so next year, when we open it, one of the invitations to the community are that we recreate freedom in real ways. Like another marker. And so we’ll walk from 17th Street Market, the second largest, space of commerce for enslaved people in our country. So we’ll walk there all the way to the building on 10th and Main, just to signify that we have this, we have another opportunity to really, create a space where freedom is really held in our country. We’ll make it a celebration. We’ll have our bands, we’ll invite people. And so that’ll be an invitation that comes out.

RICH: So earlier you described how some people sometimes refer to you as A yoga owner, right? Yoga studio, that’s the yoga person, right? This seems a lot bigger than that, right? It’s a lot to take on. , how do you not get overwhelmed with this? This seems like the scope of this project just seems very immense. So how do you and the folks you work with not get overwhelmed?

ASHLEY: My life’s work when it comes to creating space, for this type of work is me learning the balance of taking care of myself. and creating space for others to take care of themselves. That balance of self care and community care has to be pivotal and at the forefront of my life. In this juncture of life, I prioritize rest. I prioritize self awareness. I prioritize the things that really fill my life. my cup that really restore all of the things that are held within me and then I get the opportunity to place out. I create that space and with the Well Collective, yes, it’s the space that I get the opportunity to create, but it’s also a space when I get an opportunity to land. And so the same invitation that I have for myself and the people that are so passionate and, have found their purpose in creating this collective, and restoring. Narrative and restoring history, but reimagining future that in practice and in community part is that we’re doing it in sustainable ways. we have to be in our own ritual. We have to be in our own practice. We have to be in our own truth and so not all those moments are really clear, but we go back to that practice of yoga. My faith and my spirituality and, Those moments when I have to really understand my own experience are at the forefront.

RICH: How do you ensure that when you say we want to welcome everyone in that you’re welcoming the people who have traditionally been excluded from spaces like this and particularly here in Richmond the folks particularly are black citizens but just in general folks who might have been left out. What do you do to bring those folks in? Great.

ASHLEY: So first I want to name that, I began showing up in this space to represent, , black people and the wellness space, specifically in the holistic health and wellness space because I didn’t see that it was something that I needed. And so that was the problem. So then I showed up in that way. Representation matters that’s first and foremost is, showing. myself and others in the space is important. In this moment also showing all the identities that need to be represented in this space is important. So anywhere from the kids that I work with in the school systems ensuring that there’s information that shows them in the space and it also might even be showing up where they are and doing direct invitation. But then I also land that inviting in other identities. To then ensure that others can see themselves in this space. And doing direct invitations to those on all different levels and identities I think is really important. And I name that because I want to see kids of all ages. I want to see, various different gender identities. I want to see our government officials. In the space because we all need each other to do this deeper layer of work.

RICH: And so what should our listeners do if they want to know more about what you’re up to?

ASHLEY: Please Find me All things the well collective all things bare soul wellness My invitation to the Richmond community is to be a part of it The model is meet us at the well be a part of the collective not a part like separate from be a part I truly believe that each of us regardless of our role You or identity have a hand in this work. It requires people. And that’s my invitation, is be a person and show up.

RICH: Ashley Williams is an entrepreneur, a community builder, a healer, and founder and operator of the Well Collective. Thanks, Ashley. Thank you.

 

RICH: That’s our show. Thanks to our guests, Maurice Washington, Sarah Scarborough, and Ashley Williams. RVA’s got issues, but we need you to tell us what those issues are. Tell us about it at rvasgotissuesatvpm. org. Join us next time when RVA’s got issues with Well, if you want to know, subscribe to us wherever you download podcasts. RVA’s Got Issues is produced by Max Washerman and Amber Coles. Meg Lindholm is our executive producer. Gavin Wright is VPM’s managing producer of podcasts, and Steve Humble is VPM’s chief content officer. I’m your host, Rich Marr. Thanks for listening.